to ask if you care about appearing conventional?

[thatsgotit]

And if so, why?

Inspired by about a zillion threads on MN, though not directly a TAAT.

My own answer: outside of the norms of my job (which are pretty relaxed anyway), I don't personally care so much whether people perceive me as conventional or not. I don't think that makes me special or superior or anything like that - nobody is better or worse than others simply because of the things they do/don't do. I just don't care very much personally about whether people think I'm 'weird' for not following certain conventions (and similarly I don't judge others on whether or not they appear conventional), and am curious why it matters to some.

Again, I'm talking about outside of holding a job or progressing one's career, where obviously these things matter more.

Thoughts?

YABU = it matters
YANBU = so long as you're hurting anyone, it doesn't matter

I do not care at all. I dress and style myself to my mood. Sometimes conventional, sometimes very much not. I am ASD and I admit I struggle to care about much beyond practicality and whether or not clothing inspires me.

I think what this poster means (and stop me if I am wrong) is that trying hard to fit into any kind of group and signaling that through your dress, hair, speech, music or whatever the signifier may be, is essentially conventional.

It makes no difference whether the group being fit into is Young Conservatives or the local Freedom for Palestine flag waving crowd or the local goths: they are all groups with their own codes and signals. The “alternative” ones are in their own way just as conventional as the conservative groups.

Signaling to people who you want to be through your appearance is a sign of wanting to be accepted. A truly unconventional person doesn’t align him or herself with any group and can’t easily be identified.

No, not invariably.

That is as blinkered and reductionist as saying that "all mothers" or "all people with fillers" or whatever other sweeping generalisation. Strangely enough, people are individuals, do things for myriad reasons and are more interesting when judged as individuals on a good knowledge of them.

But you won't change your mind.

I literally dyed my hair bright pink my first weeks at university, purely to see who avoided me because of it. Two weeks later, I dyed it back to my normal colour, and those people then came to make friends, now I looked "normal".

No thanks, not interested, you've already shown me who you are!

I'm a mum of 2 in her forties. Never mind conventional, I'm basically invisible!

I don’t care. If I did I would be married with kids for some random dude.

I also would have stopped going out dancing years ago.

I think you’re way off the mark thinking you know people from their look/lifestyle.

I live a very conventional life and outward appearances would say nothing about who I am as a person.

Blue hair people usually find each other, as do yummy mummies and other ‘looks’.
I have a very diverse group of friends and we gel because we were looking for a ‘feeling’ not an aesthetic, I feel very lucky to have them.

Yes. Deeply.
I’m neurodivergent from a family of neurodivergents and passing for normal is a survival skill.

Standing out gets you bullied, mugged, assaulted, victimised, pilloried.

Exactly. And while other members of that group will see you as 'of their tribe' and approve of, or admire your look which is according to your group's convention, to other people you may look 'unconventional', because that's not their tribe.

I look deeply conventional by most standards, but I met an elderly stranger at a family funeral the other day for whom I was clearly deeply unconventional in having shoulder-length hair in my fifties. She actually touched my hair and said 'You're very modern-looking!' and 'Do you never think of getting it cut?'

I don't think so, find me one blue haired person who isn't a social progressive and I'll take it all back

Why did you feel the need to test people? That doesn’t seem very open.

I think it’s more weird to be annoyed at other people because they don’t mind being unconventional. Or more than likely just doing something because they like it

I wear bright colours and prints because they make me happy. It's a recognised thing, dopamine dressing. Likewise my house is full of colour and patterned wallpaper etc for the same reason. I have a history of severe depression so I will do anything that boosts my mood. It has nothing to do with wanting to be unconventional or attention seeking. It's purely to make me happy.

I dont have blue hair, its actually grey! But I have had different colours before and again it was because it made me happy. Other people's opinions dont come into it.

Ooooooh this has struck a chord with me!! I live near a town that prides itself on having an unconventional vibe!

Off the grid, flowery dungarees people with blue hair and kids with unusual names. But these people couldn't be more conventional if they tried!! And as for off the grid Grrrrrr. How you can you be off the grid if you have a smart phone!??

But yes I do pigeon hole (not judge) these people, as I would pigeon hole a person with a skin head and swastika tattoo, or a person with expensive designer suit and briefcase.

Giving the blue hair example, I think a female senior manager in an Accounting firm with a smart suit and blue haired bob, would be unconventional.

I don't think I'm unconventional but am at the age where I don't care a fig of what anyone thinks of me.

It's a really interesting thread OP. What people think is or isn't unconventional.

I avoid all judgemental people so hopefully that will weed out 'blue hair haters'. Live and let live, don't judge others, wear whatever colour hair you like . I actually am 70 with long white hair - I don't fit the norm but that's fine by me.
.

@BlueJuniper94

People with these dye jobs are invariably signalling to other tribe members. Its a form of communication and I understand what they are saying. I've encountered many. I'll treat them with manners and respect (often a one way street) but I'm sure they'd quite rather I gave them the space I do!

You're correct about tribe signaling but completely wrong about motives.

You're right that having a blue dye job is a social signifier. By definition no one goes to the trouble of changing an element of their appearance if they don't want it to send some sort of signal about them. And it is tribal, even if subconsciously so. Everyone to some extent is sending a sign about how they want to be seen by society, even "unconventional" people.

I completely disagree with you on their motives though. Its grossly unscientific to assume that anyone with blue hair is "progressive": how can you possibly prove this? And how bigoted to assume you'll dislike anyone based on how they dress. Does that extend to refusing to talk to people who wear high heels or wear false eyelashes?

Judgement works both ways.

Which part of "socially progressive" do you have a problem with?
Do you think we shouldn't address inequality?
Shouldn't support rights for women?
Shouldn't support rights for minorities?
Shouldn't aspire to greater equality?
Do you have a problem with gay people?

Or is "socially progressive" a cover for prejudice against the 0.8% of people who identify as trans?

Indeed! People are endlessly surprising. And, as has been commented, regional or even much smaller local communities really make a difference to what the general ‘vibe’ is.

Hate is a strong term. You'd never know, you're probably shoulder to shoulder with us already 😉

There's people who are unconventional and there's people who think their unconventional.

You can dress a certain way and have certain politics and still just be a conventional person from a different tribe who might as well have just been cloned and it's actually exceptionally boring and really not remotely unconventional. They just think they are.

I can't be arsed with them.

Explain to me why it's not open?

I presented myself in a certain way. I was open to interacting with anyone.
As we didn't know each other, as uni Freshers, people reacted to me based on that presentation. Some came and chatted, and some decided not to - so it's either inherent to their personalities as to whether they're outgoing or not, or it's based on appearance, cos at that point that's all they have to go on.

And in turn, I judged them on their behaviour and actions, so the ones who chose to chat and find out who I was, rather than judging on appearance, are more likely to be those I want to be friends with.
Those who didn't speak at all, also fine, I got to know some of them better later if they were more introverted/quieter etc.
Those who avoided me with pink hair but wanted to be friends when I looked "normal" - you've just proved you were judging on appearance, and that's something I'm less keen on.

I think most people go through natural life stages that alternate - where they’re desperate to fit in, then desperate not to fit in. Then they hit 50 or so and don’t really give a shit anymore. Like childhood, you’re desperate to fit in, then you become a teenager/young adult and you’re desperate to be different, then you hit your 30s and you’re desperate to fit in again by getting married and having kids. Then middle-age/post middle-age you just get tired of it all and don’t really care, or you go through another stage of not wanting to fit in - thinking about older people who are described as eccentric. I’m late 30s and don’t fit the conventional mode - I’m gay, a single parent, dress like I’m 21. I guess being gay has always made me feel unconventional and I’m very happy to be. I don’t think it’s ever been that important to me whether I’m unconventional or conventional though (apart from when I was a teenager and desperately wanted to be straight!) Apart from career-wise. It’s always been important to me to have an identity through my career, which I guess is trying to be conventional. And I guess I’m a little guilty of not wanting to look unfashionable- eg. I’d tend not to wear skinny jeans now cos it’s all about baggy atm.

I can see both sides of the blue hair debate lol. Blue hair + flowery doc martens + pronoun badges + Bertie from Seaseme Street backpack does tend to equal v. annoying, socially awkward, easily offended people. This is based on many real life encounters. Blue hair on its own though, I know loads of people how regularly dye their hair bright colours and they are none of those things, unconventional maybe, but not righteous, annoying or try-hard. They just get bored of having the same hair colour

Quite. People saying they would give blue hair a wide berth, I’m sure the blue haired people are truly thankful.

Had my friend round for coffee this morning.
She's 80 with long white hair.

Another friend is late 60s with long white hair.

Both look amazing and it exactly suits them perfectly

It would be very easy to prove with a questionnaire about their social attitudes and I would put good money on the outcome. And it's odd that you appear to contradict yourself - you agree that it is in-group signalling, but then what is that group if not a subculture, what do they have in common other yet their hair? It's the outward signifier of their tribes values - which if hair is dyed blue they probably eschew "tradition" and conservative values. Then again, some punks were nazis, so there are exceptions. Find me a blue haired person who defends fox hunting and I will eat my hat.

I've honestly never even thought about whether people find me conventional or not!