About my dad’s behaviour at Christmas? Or is this normal for his age?

[MyFlakyPombear]

My dad is early 70s, has never been very active but no significant health issues. My parents downsized, but still wanted to host me, my DH and 2 year old DD at Christmas. Due to distance we stayed 4 nights.

i feel irritated that much all my dad said during the whole visit was how tired he was and he ‘doesn’t know how we do it with DD’. She was full on while we were there, including running in and out of the living room carrying things and playing a drum (which grandparents bought her!), and playing music on a toy. But that was interspersed with quieter reading, drawing etc and also time when we took her out so not constant. I feel my dad made no effort to help us or engage her while we were there, beyond reading her some books. She tripped over his legs at one point because she was running past and he didn’t bother to move them!

AIBU that he could have made a bit more effort and been less negative, given we were there for a short period of time? Or is this just what happens when you’re older?

he wasn’t tired from hosting btw as me, my DH and DM did all that.

Sounds like hosting Christmas was your mum's choice and dad went along with it to keep the peace. Maybe he is actually over the whole Christmas thing, not everyone is into it. I think an energetic 2 year old that has just been confined to a car for 6 hours in a small house would be tiring for a lot of 70+ people. It's no one's fault. She's 2 and he's 71. Maybe book a motel next year, even if it's for half the nights.

With a small child I would be more inclined to have Christmas at home until they are over the running around madly stage as trying to contain them in a hotel won't be fun either and holiday cottages are very expensive at Christmas. Your wants and needs over Christmas are important too. Just tell people you are having Christmas at your house, invite them if you wish but otherwise arrange to see them a couple of weeks before or after Christmas when it is cheaper to rent somewhere.

I disagree that people should have to move their legs unless they are completely blocking a passageway in which case the chairs need rearranging. Children need to learn to avoid obstacles not expect them to move.

I think if still in a couple this can really depend too on those dynamics - I would be somewhat like you - my H, definitely not

I have often found that there is a gulf between the grandparents some people want to be or envision themselves as, and the grandparents they actually are. My parents are like this - love the idea of the children in theory and claim to want them around regularly, but then find them too loud and tiring when they are about.

I find the only way to resolve it is to impose limitations on visits, even though this leads my parents to be a bit snotty about not getting as much time as they would like. I don't stay overnight at their house anymore. They often ask us to, but whenever we have in the past my dad has struggled to cope with even very minimal toddler noise, hates things like nappies going in the bin (even bagged), grumbles about toys being out etc, and we have overstayed our welcome within a few hours.

They're much better with my older nephews and nieces so I hold out hope that when my own children are older we'll be able to meet their expectations for visits more. In the meantime I just smile through gritted teeth at the comments about how they wish we would stay more and that they don't get to see the children enough.

Yes, this is exactly the feeling I have had. No question that my DPs love my DD to bits, who has always been a very easy child, but limiting time keeps things more manageable for her and for them.

The penny dropped with a different side of a situation I was thinking about with a friend. Friend's Dad had owned and worked in a pharmacy all of his life, meaning shifts and weekend work and opening around holiday times and so on, sometimes something that wasn't optimal for family life.

Friend has a long commute herself and is now married to someone who works in a different store, and relies a lot on her parents for about half her childcare needs. Her Dad really can't see why her husband can't be more flexible with work! It's another sign of short memory syndrome.

But not everyone can. My mum had arthritis pretty badly at 70 and died at 74

It’s only not old if you’re in decent health surely? My father was dead by 68. My mother was incredibly active until 70 when she suddenly seemed much slower and tired easier. She started to not enjoy going out as much. Turns out she had cancer and was dead by 71. You honestly just don’t know people’s health and how they are feeling. I think people struggle to see their parents age and mentally keep them around 50/60 max.

My in laws are 74/75 and still doing childcare 4 days a week for my nieces and nephews. They have 3 before and after school 3 days a week and 1 all day 2 days a week. They are absolutely knackered. MIL has arthritis and is awaiting a hip replacement. FIL is generally in “good” health but is visibly more wobbly than he used to be when walking and needs to hold on to things more often. I very much worry about them doing all day childcare for a 2 year old but they say they are fine!

The average life expectancy for a man in the U.K is 81 years so when do we classify people as old ? Maybe once they hit 80 ?

Kind of detailing the thread but surely that's because a lot of people unfortunately did before their time? Early 70s isn't what I'd class as old age. Slowing down maybe but not in a chair all day certainly.

Anyway it's still probably too long for some people to cohabit with a two year old.

No it's not. It's 79.1 for a man as the UK average. This also varies considerably by area because life expectancy is shorter in deprived areas. Also, 'healthy life expectancy' according to the government using ONS data (2021-23) for men in England is 61.5 years. I think it's reasonable to consider that you are 'old' somewhere in the period when you've passed the point of healthy life expectancy.

Oh! Was he waggling his legs around then, to trip her intentionally?! She really shouldn't have been running around! It sounds like he was just stretching his legs out to relax, which many people are entitled to do in their own home! I think you are being vv unreasonable here.
He's not used to having a small child around. The "full on" is the giveaway that she was being a bit of a nuisance! You are being unreasonably harsh on your dad.

I'm in my mid-70s and my DH is 79, we do what we can to help my DD who is a single parent. I sometimes have her two DC to stay for a couple of days but I find having them around all day is pretty full-on. My DH is very good with them, though he wasn't so good with our own DC, except taking them for the odd day out or special treat.
We also go and stay with my other GC from time to time, if DS and DIL are away for a few days, but this is always in term time so less time with the children.
Sometimes it all gets a bit too much but in general it's fine. Obviously @MyFlakyPombear's father isn't very child orientated and finds it exhausting, as we all do from time to time. Not everybody is good with children, it's a shame that a shorter visit isn't possible.

My MIL wasn't good with children, her house was ultra-tidy and she had no toys at all. If we took toys there she spent her time picking them up and moving them to keep the place neat. We never took our four children to stay with her, though it was a long journey (well over four hours on a good travelling day) so we used to stay somewhere halfway, travel to see her for a day, and then go back to sleep halfway again.
She did sometimes come to stay with us but found it overwhelming, even though she could have got away from the children from time to time as we had plenty of space. She would insist that it wasn't worth her coming unless she stayed for a week, which was far too long for all of us. In the end I used to invite my DM to come after a couple of days and she would take my MIL away to stay with her.

Don't ignore the fact your dad did read with his grandaughter that's engaging.
He may not of had time to move his legs he is in his slowing down years and out of practice.
Him saying I don't know how you do it is him telling you this.
He is getting on don't be harsh on him.

Why invite guests you can’t cope with?

Why have sympathy for him when they insist on hosting?

Given that OP has said that he was hand-off, grumpy and lazy when she was a child, leaving everything child related to OP's mum, it seems as though old age has only made him worse.

OP should invite her mum to visit her without her dad.

I think this is the thing with women having children when older ( and I totally get the reasons for this - I had my son at 36) - chances are you are going to get grandparents late 60s and early 70s - even with young GC - ability to cope with toddlers for long periods of time always varied wildly but even more so I would say in over 65s when many are used to order, routine and may have some health issues. I know at 64 I love kids but in smaller doses. - I think space can be an issue too, many ( not all) have downsized by 70s

My dad is nearly 70 and moans that he cant look after his two year old grandchild for more than 3 hours as its 'too much' So I would say its normal

I don’t know if he could have done more or not. But honestly, OP? I’m envious of you. My dad is 75 and has Parkinson’s disease, and for the last few years he hasn’t been able to do much with my kids except react to what they’re doing. Reading your post, I realized that I don’t think he’s ever been able to read a book to my younger daughter, although he used to read to my older one. My kids haven’t been able to sleep over at my parents’ house for a couple years now. This past year, I had to explain to them that sometimes Grandpa has to ask if something he sees is really there or not.

Maybe your dad could’ve made more of an effort, and maybe he couldn’t have. But I’d take what you’ve got any day.

I dont think its necessarily an age thing; I woildnt most people find having guests for 4 days over Christmas , never mind guests with a 2 year old,exhausting

Yes, I think this is pretty typical, tbh. Either you or your parents had kids late, and this is what happens.

My Mum was 50 when I had my first child, and 52 when I had my second. She was very hands on and didn't get tired.

When my sibling had children, my Mum was almost 70 and she was utterly knackered if she babysat, in a way that she hadn't been with my kids, when she was in her early 50's.

SIL had her kids late. They are in primary school and FIL is almost 80. He's not interested in babysitting, and I get it.

I’m 75 , love my kids and grandkids , but if they are here for more than a couple of days I find it exhausting !
When your kids leave home, at first it seems so strange and you miss them all dreadfully.
But you soon settling into a different sort of routine and your space becomes your own, you can choose who you see who you don’t see et cetera.
So when you suddenly have a house full of people, especially children it is amazing, but it does make you very tired.
I’m afraid it’s just part of ageing .

Nobody can “insist” on hosting. People can insist on not leaving their own house but you can’t force other people to stay with you just because you don’t want to travel