Ice agent shoots a woman in the face part 3

[Moontan]

Donald Trump has now said its okay to murder a woman. Because they are doing it for people's 'safety'

It is interesting how far humans will let themselves be abused by bad people.

I was watching a documentary about jonestown the cult.

Some people left the cult

They said that the leader beat people, raped people, starved people. He made them do physical labour for many hours a day. He demanded that they give him all of their money.

And yet still hundreds of people followed him.

People seem to keep supporting a person and staying there. Rather than saying "maybe i was wrong and this guy is actually a bad person"

But equally those defending her seem to think ICE were 100% to blame.

I think both and neither are to blame. I absolutely think shooting her was an overreaction and disproportionate force, because my overall impression of the video is that she wasn’t intending to run him over. But I think she was reckless as to whether she did or not, because driving when people are 30cm in front of your vehicle may or may not result in them being injured and any normal person would know and anticipate this.

I also think his previous injury is highly relevant and I would be surprised if this didn’t impact his psychological state in the moment when he saw the car driving toward him.

I think people need to stop fucking around with ICE. They have a function to carry out; an important one which is the will of the American people. No matter how nice your neighbour is, we shouldn’t let people with no right to be in the country remain in the country because then you end up with a messy overpopulated nation with lots of ‘off record’ people.

ICE will never attract soft, sensitive, confrontation averse men because the people they arrest can be very dangerous and can you see men like Louis Theroux and Owen Jones being able to deal with them? Ultimately they have to be quite tough and willing to engage if necessary but this is a fine line.

Did you not read the introductory paragraph?

Yes agree. There was fault of both sides and that's why this tragedy occurred.

Yes I'd get out of the car.

If the officer shot her due to his previous injuries and subsequent trauma he was not fit for duty and should certainly not have been on armed duty, this is not a 'reason' for what he did but a terrible excuse.

You’d get out of the car when there were men waving guns in your face? I sure as hell wouldn’t.

There are female ICE officers too. But like the men, they're tough. The lesson here is don't interfere with armed law enforcement officers when they are engaged in difficult and dangerous operations.

Did you not read the bit where officers should not place themselves in front of a vehicle to create danger, should not shoot into a moving vehicle, should move out of the way if possible, and should not use deadly force to prevent escape?

I think a lot of posters have left this thread and won't contribute to any successive ones due to the persistent engagement with a few posters.

I really want to read posts from people like @Divebar2021 but much is getting lost by the derailers who have NOTHING more to add.

I wish MN would introduce a block feature.

I am not normally inclined to censorship, or echo chambers, but the posters here continuing to blame and deflect is really upsetting to me. The videos clearly show a woman murdered in a cold blooded fit of male rage. The way he calmly walks away and is even caught calling her a fucking bitch still doesn't deter...

I feel sick at the thought of women, in particular, excusing this.

No, the lesson here is that your armed law enforcement officers need to have sufficient training and vetting that they are able to manage 2 30-something-year old women without shooting them in the head, like all other developed countries manage to do.

So (even if proved) Renee was ‘at fault’ too - the ‘fault’ bit of ICE was huge - this is the issue.
She wasn’t just mistakenly arrested.
She wasn’t just shouted at.
She wasn’t just manhandled mistakenly.
She wasn’t even just shot in the arm.
She even wasn’t just shot once.
She was shot 3x in the head.
Saying both sides were at fault in this incident doesn’t excuse her being killed.
I don’t understand the blase attitude to someone’s life - oh, both made mistakes - yeah well one is now dead so it needs investigation - proper judicial investigation.

The person I blame for shooting her is the man who chose to pull the trigger.
I also attribute blame to those who are empowering these agents to act like thugs and militia with no rules or standards. Vance for example and Trump with his pardons.

"You’d get out of the car when there were men waving guns in your face? I sure as hell wouldn’t."

Well then you have 2 choices in that case

1. let them remove you which means they will try and open the door and ultimately smash the window to do so.
2. Attempt to drive off. You would have to do this Very carefully as we have seen.

Renee did not seem alarmed but rather flippant and nonchalant in her driving so hard to conclude sh acted out of fright.

Amazing analysis @divebar2021 . This is interesting:

The second is the releasing of the ICE agents name - extraordinary decision. Either US tax payers are now paying for his protection or he’s currently holed up fearing for his life. No excuse for that while an investigation is ongoing. Makes you wonder why they wanted his identity known doesn’t it?

Could it be his name was leaked anyway by a member of the public? Otherwise, the entire way this is being handled points to deliberate chaos and probably an attempt to distract attention from something else.

Agreed.

I think that she and her wife behaved recklessly in a volatile situation, and possibly were behaving illegally, interfering with an active operation. I would strongly advise people to not do that, as it's risky and unhelpful to everyone.

But the ICE officer was the paid and trained professional in that situation, who made errors in protocol that led to him shooting her, resulting in her death. The fault is ultimately with him and the organisation he was employed by.

My DB is an armed officer (in GB) Over the course of his duty he has been taunted, spat on, had paint, piss and shit thrown over him, been threatened with extreme violence etc. Never has he had to shoot anyone in the face, or anywhere else for that matter, the training that he is given is exhaustive, they are checked medically every few months and the support is second to none. A few medicals ago he had high blood pressure, he was taken off armed duty that day and had to have tests every week to see if it had gone back to normal before being re armed ( and then several weeks of training with the guns after that)

It was JD Vance and K Noem who accidentally/unintentionally revealed the ICE agents identity

I'd take a guess that if a middle aged woman at a fairly low key protest had suggested he get lunch as they weren't going anywhere it may have been a light point in his day as infinitely better than the abuse they often receive.

The copium is off the charts

Men waving guns? We are actually talking about a law enforcement officer instructing someone to get out of the car. The gun came out when she appeared to cause a threat to those around her with her massive vehicle.

And the innocent gang bangers shot in Portland?

They were waving guns. ICE aren’t law enforcement officers, the clue’s in the name. Harassing US citizens is outwith their remit.

'want to read posts from people like @Divebar2021 '

An ex 'met' officer who didn't even hear the first repeated 'get out of the car' instructions? I mean that was the actual 100% clear bit.

Oh stop it. You know what you are posting is a lot of lies.

There was no 'gun waving', Watch the footage it's all there.