Ice agent shoots a woman in the face part 3

[Moontan]

Donald Trump has now said its okay to murder a woman. Because they are doing it for people's 'safety'

It is interesting how far humans will let themselves be abused by bad people.

I was watching a documentary about jonestown the cult.

Some people left the cult

They said that the leader beat people, raped people, starved people. He made them do physical labour for many hours a day. He demanded that they give him all of their money.

And yet still hundreds of people followed him.

People seem to keep supporting a person and staying there. Rather than saying "maybe i was wrong and this guy is actually a bad person"

@RedTagAlan all of them had outstanding deportation orders against them. Every single day, for decades, the US and many many other countries have routinely deported convicted felons. Minnesota was targeted because unlike many other states, they haven’t been acting on deportation orders

Are you saying the US should intervene and police other countries’ policies on incarceration of convicted felons?

You must be very happy with the level of public services in Britain if you think the government in this country should prioritise paying for the incarceration of convicted criminals who are also illegal immigrants at the expense of the local population.

They are already in Jail doing time for their crime, And ICE are setting them free, in their own country, early. They would have been deported anyway.

So effectively, foreign criminals in US jails will be hoping ICE turn up. Cos they get sent home and set free. INSTEAD OF BEING IN JAIL.

All ICE really need to do is put "get out of jail free" cards beside the prison telephone. Call this number, be out in a week.

Gotta say. Thanks for letting us know what is really going on.

Divebar2021

thank you for your post

Very insightful post from @Divebar2021 , thank you.

@RedTagAlan If that’s your genuine interpretation of how this plays out, doesn’t it seem odd that so many on the left seek to impede ICE?

Surely you must be aware of the deportation of convicted criminals? Even the UK managed 4,000 or so in one year. Most of which were bitterly fought. I wonder why they fight if they’re just going to be left to wander the streets of their home countries.

Absolutely agree with all of this, including what I teach my children, who are mixed race so potentially more at risk where I live, despite the police not being routinely armed.

As someone outside the US, it's seemed for some time from what I've seen and read in the media that ICE is currently a 'cowboy operation', filled with many loose cannons (of the sort you might find in Border Patrol along the southern border), who are aggressive, filled with machismo, and not afraid to use disproportionate force in the execution of their orders. It's why I'm so surprised that any US-based person would think to risk non-compliance. But the scene was definitely a chaotic, poorly handled one, even before the shooting.

Ice are not just going for the criminals in jail though are they ? They are grabbing people off the street too. Non criminals.

And really, you are defending ICE releasing convicted felons with a "whatabout British Court fights". Effectively.

So yes, the US deports convicted foreign criminals, after they serve their time. Ice is just speeding it up, and missing out the serving time bit. Commuting their sentence, setting them free elsewhere.

And you are defending that.

The scene was an absolute mess, I agree. And I completely understand why people are saying they teach their children to be careful around police in the US.

The thing is though, the reason they have to do this is what is happening here. The second there is a slight whiff that a LE officer might be held responsible for causing harm to someone they deem undesirable, people fall over themselves to defend them to the point of trawling through a dead woman's past to find dirt on her.

It honestly feels like I've fallen into an episode of Black Mirror. If you stop defending this and start demanding accountability, you will not have to teach your children to fear the people who are supposed to protect them.

According to an article linked in one of the previous threads written by a liberal rag, only 50 of the 500,000 detained by ICE were discovered to be US citizens.

That is an excellent hit rate, all things considered.

I don't live in the US, I live somewhere where police are not routinely armed with deadly weapons, and yet I still teach my children to be careful.

Because any situation where emotions are heightened, where human error could lead to injury, where those in charge are used to dealing with violent, unpredictable individuals and being in fear of their own safety, and where you are ultimately at their mercy, involves a risk of serious harm to yourself if things go awry.

One bad day, one mistake in protocol, one bad apple...it only takes one thing to go wrong to lead to a terrible escalation, and even if the officer responsible is hauled over the coals afterwards and held accountable, it won't help the person who was harmed/killed by them.

One can, I think, have high standards of training and accountability for officers, and yet still a high level of caution as a member of the public.

'Renee is in her car. There are various ICE agents around and shouting. I’m unclear what they want her to do. Are there multiple instructions?'

If you actually watch the various available footage she is told loudly and repeatedly to get out of the car. If you were a met officer surely you'd expect the person to get out of the car?!

She isn't executing a '3 point turn'. She is blocking a lane then behaving in a way that poses a danger to the people immediately around her car.

Your follow up post including an offensive comment from another platform is not helpful is it?

ICE officers do not have the powers of police. They have a remit to deal with Immigration matters. The fact that they wear police insignia on their uniforms is a danger as far as I’m concerned

First of all, as federal agents they do have the power to detain US citizens who are interfering with their duties. How did that escape you?

She is not allowed to obstruct federal agents. Same as if they were FBI, DEA, ATF. Pretty basic tbh

Yes of course there will always be error and mistaken identity, I think an accuracy rate of 99.999% is more than reasonable.

It's a worry that alleged ex UK police do not know this. Though perhaps not surprising, sadly.

Not helpful for those looking to say Renee brought it on herself through non compliance no.
Really helpful to those seeking clarity in the obviously chaotic scene. Personally I knew it was chaotic but this post highlights and clearly breaks down the specific ways it fell apart, the specific unusual stuff the ICE agent and other agents did. Really helpful and very clear.
Knowledge shared that nearly all on this thread don’t have is always very useful.
The bit you object to is that this poster isn’t sure what instructions are shouted and makes this clear - though also makes clear there shouldn’t be multiple shouted instructions.
You jump on just this and show your determination to try to prove ICE unaccountable and Renee at fault, with no acceptance of any other information.
What do you think of the rest of the points?

If i messed around with the officers at Heathrow, or any of the other airports by watching them work and making sparky comments, then due to my choices, I would expect the legal process to kick in and spend a few hours in a prison cell.

Why is it different in America where you can seemingly by shot in the head at close quarters with the shooter acting as judge, jury and executioner while the vice president says this is ok?

When were the citizens of America told of this change, or are they now living in a country run by a man with a private militia who can do what they like?

I think the American people need to know the situation.

Also @ Divebar2021 posting very unpleasant quotes from other platforms when not one person on here has said anything like it would not only seem unpleasant but an attempt to inflame the discussion. Why?

I'd also look at who your contacts/friends/followers are on social media..

I must have imagined reading all the "FAFO" posts in here. @Divebar2021 has done nothing wrong.

The pp said it wasn't clear what they wanted her to do. We hear 'get out of the car' loudly and repeatedly. If the pp missed that then I'm not sure the rest of the long post was worth debating.

Here’s the source:

doj. Not “whatever police department. DOJ.

That's a skewed stat. Look at all the ones that have been manhandled.

Would you get out of the car if some hyped ICE bloke was waving a gun? I wouldn't. As we know, you're not obliged to get out of the car in the UK if stopped by police, and ICE aren't police.

Yep, and we saw exactly this at Manchester airport recently when two men attacked police.

no one got shot. They were arrested and tried.

@RedTagAlan the list details convicted criminals who have outstanding deportation orders against them and who have been removed by ICE during this recent crackdown in Minnesota.

Some were serving time in prison but many had served their sentences and instead of being deported were let back out onto the streets of Minnesota. The two things they had in common were that they were convicted criminals and had no right to be in the USA.

I raised the issue of UK deportations not because of “whataboutery” but because you seemed unaware that deportation of convicted criminals is standard practice for the vast majority of countries. You also seemed to imply that it is only western countries who are able to satisfactorily enact incarceration for convicted criminals which at best, is somewhat paternalistic.

Genuine question - I'm curious, having watched the videos, what were the multiple instructions? I seem to have missed those.

I can hear what I think are non-ICE agents yelling in the background, so it is a chaotic situation for sure, but the only ICE instructions I heard were 'get out of the car!' repeatedly.