Was I the problem in this group?

[pxseyocto]

I have a friend at university who I’m pretty close with, probably my closest uni friend.

She recently got into archery society, found a friend group and invited me to go rock climbing with them in November. I was pretty excited since I thought it’d be good to make some friends. Once I met them there were two guys and three girls including my good friend. I shook hands with the guys and said hello to everyone, but it was initially sort of awkward since we’d thought I’d be able to get them into their first session for free (as I’d signed up there the year before and the friend mentioned something like if an existing member brings along friends they get to go free). However that didn’t work and we all had to pay individually for a session. So it was off to a bad start but I moved past and got to climbing. I didn’t really talk to the girls as I was pretty shy, we just waited for the guys to change and then we all went to climb.

I noticed from then on, that the group was mostly talking among themselves. We all had goes at climbing the same wall and when it was my turn they did give me tips and answer my questions, but apart from small talk and a few sentences they didn’t talk to me much. I could tell they were all comfortable with each other and I was kind of the outlier there, and I thought that was normal since obviously I’d just met them. I mainly kind of followed them around and had goes at climbing or pointing out which walls to do, but was mostly talking to the friend I knew already.
At one point we all got to climb one wall and I was kind of struggling at the end, when they helped me out and one of the guys pulled me up to get to the top with them. It was good and we had a sort of jokey conversation on the way down the ladder as to who should go before who.

An hour or so of climbing and one girl had to leave. I followed shortly after since I was meeting with another friend. When I was saying goodbye we got into a small conversation with the friend and the two guys. They said they were doing a boxing/mma session the next day and if I wanted to come, and I was kind of shy since it would be only me and the two guys, but I said I could and that I’ll see how things go tomorrow. I shook hands with the guys and said goodbye to them and the friend also. Not a great start but it wasn’t too bad as it was the first time meeting.

The next day I think I completely forgot about the boxing/MMA event, but I didn’t get the guys’ numbers or anything and the friend didn’t even follow up about it so I didn’t end up going, not that big of a deal.
I didn’t really expect to see them after that but I didn’t have any harsh feelings towards them, just that they were mostly talking among themselves.

A week or so later, I was eating by myself on a bench outside on campus when I saw the friend with the same group walking by. The friend didn’t see me, but the others pointed out “hey isn’t that your friend” to her, after which she came back and spoke to me. She asked what I was doing alone and I said I was just eating at my regular spot to chill by myself after lessons.

I asked where they were going and she said to an arcade, so I figured let me try and be social and asked if I could come along. She said sure and we followed right after them as they’d gone quite a bit ahead of us while we were talking. I think that in the moment I was happy they recognised me and stopped to say hi, which I took as a good sign that we broke the ice and they were comfortable with me now, so that’s why I got so confident and wanted to go with them.
As me and the friend caught up to her group though, I could tell the vibe was off again and remembered what happened at climbing before and how they mostly spoke to each other and I was the obvious outlier. I realised it’ll probably be the same now so I’d have to try extra hard to talk first, and regretted getting too confident and asking her to join them.

My guess would turn out correct as on the way there they were again mostly speaking among themselves. One of the guys who was also there the week before seemed kind of upset and wasn’t really talking to anyone either, just following quietly at the back like me. I felt kind of awkward and just kept walking along with them. We got to the train and we kind of split up in the carriage with the other guy and the girls in a large group and me, the friend I knew well and the guy who was upset were standing outside of the group, so I was talking to the friend I knew from before. She then told me to go talk to the rest and why I was just standing by myself. I don’t remember how I responded but it was probably trying to defend myself and saying the other guy wasn’t talking much either.

With him though, I noticed that the girls and other guy realised he was kind of upset and asked him if he was okay trying to find out wha was wrong, to which he kind of shrugged them off. With me though, I was just there standing around or following like a sheep as they were again, keeping and talking amongst themselves. I don’t blame them as they knew the guy well and it probably wasn’t normal for him to not talk much, while they barely knew me and had barely spoken to me before.

So back to the train and the friend telling me to talk more. I think at the end she even asked why I was there if I wasn’t gonna talk, to which I took offense. That kinda killed my mood and I saw her as being kind of blunt, saying I might as well go home at that point. I don’t think I’d ever say that to her or any friend of mine if they were left out in my friend group, rather ask them to talk or be fine with them talking to me to at least not be by themselves.

We got out of the station and the way towards the arcade was pretty much the same, them talking amongst themselves and me following around listening. What she said didn’t help me socialise any more at all, probably made me feel more stressed and I wanted to leave at that point but I felt awkward saying it and had no idea how to get myself out so I just stayed. At one point we stopped as some of them had to use the bathrooms so it was me, the friend and the two guys. I stood around quietly agin as the guys weren’t really saying anything to me, and the friend tried again breaking the ice by reintroducing us to each other and telling us to speak and say something and not make it awkward. One of the guys then said “I tried, just letting you know I’ve tried” and the other who was previously quiet and upset said “just let him smile” or something along the lines of that, because I wasn’t saying anything but smiling and walking with them. I still find that rude and backhanded, I think the first guy was trying to say he tried talking to me to no avail, but he hadn’t said a single word to me that whole journey there and I know for a fact if he spoke to me I would’ve carried on a conversation, so no he hadn’t “tried” at all. It really pissed me off even to this day but I didn’t say anything there and then.
I don’t know if the second guy was trying to defend me or make fun of me by saying to let me just smile.

The others then came back and we resumed walking to the arcade. One of the girls actually started a conversation with me then, asking me what I study. I answered and asked what she did etc, asked about archery and commented on her climbing from the week before. So I can socialise and have a conversation, it’s just I need the other person to either start it or just engage with me in the first place. We spoke until we got to the arcade, then they all started talking about who would pay on the card machine as we needed an arcade card with prepaid points inside it to go on the games and machines.

Anyway, we play a few first games and again it was mostly them competing with each other and talking, with me saying something here and there or being given the turn to play. I then spoke to the friend again, who again told me to walk up to the others and talk to them. I got a bit defensive as I was still bitter about her previous comment about why did I come if I wasn’t gonna talk, so I tried to tell her my point of view - that they weren’t talking to me either and that a conversation goes both ways, not just me trying to start convos to no avail while they mostly talk amongst each other and I’m just there outcasted. I wasn’t really keen to go up to them as it would seem like I’m begging to be inserted into the group, but I was confident to have a conversation if one of them included me like the girl who started talking to me on the way there and I reciprocated on.

After that, a third guy arrived who was also a friend of theirs already, and he was actually much nicer. After I said hi to him and we played some games he would turn to me and start conversations with me, ask me about what I do and try to include me or talk to me. That’s when things got better, I was talking to him but also the others if they were nearby or joining in, and we eventually partnered up with the guy for a game where you race with a partner, and competed against them in other games as well. We kind of broke the ice after that and us guys started talking a bit more as a group with me too. We even shared a group hug towards the end which was kind of wholesome, even said we loved each other. So the third guy coming and talking to me helped me bloom a bit like a butterfly and show that I can be talkative when the others are open to include me or initiate.

That was most of it, we went home after that and even the second guy who previously said to let me just smile was telling me a story about their group chat and just funny small talk in general. We all ended up splitting as we took different ways home, and I said bye to everyone. I later saw one of the girls at the end who happened to be going the same way home as me and we spoke about university and stuff until I got off the train.

That was around 2 months ago now, but I just wanted to ask on here if I was really the issue by not talking a lot or if a lot of you would’ve done the same as me, if maybe the vibes were off and if there’s any truth in what I said about a conversation going both ways, not just me the outsider trying to initiate with the already-friends in the group.
Another friend who I asked said I should talk to them and put myself out there and not be quiet especially as they already knew each other well.

Am I also being unreasonable to get upset at the friend’s comment about how I shouldn’t have come if I wasn’t going to talk? The whole group was mainly talking among themselves and I felt like an outlier just being there unable to insert myself into the convo. They weren’t really acknowledging me either or talking to me. Is it unreasonable to expect anyone to try and talk to me then?
I still find that comment kind of blunt from her.
Also the comments from the two guys before we got to the arcade, one who said he “tried” (when he really didn’t at least from my perspective, he was just talking to the girls he knew already and the second guy, barely acknowledging me), and the second who told her to just let me smile.

Do I need to improve my social skills of approaching people and starting conversations, or is it normal to keep quiet and not be keen to integrate if they mainly keep talking among themselves? Or maybe our vibes were just off and I don’t happen to click with them in general?

Sorry I have up half way through. Why did you write so much about so little? And in such an unengaging way.

Maybe if you are too quiet or clingy they don't really fancy being friends with you. Just forget about them.

So depressing (not to mention predictable) that whenever anyone posts something long these days it's assumed to be AI. 🙄 There seems to be so much antipathy towards actual words and description these days, we'll all end up grunting at each other in monosyllables the way things are going.

It sounds like you’re introverted and over-think social interaction. I’m that way. Some other people just chat and don’t even think about what they say most of the time.

When they meet someone who thinks about what they say they sometimes take offence, like you’re being standoffish, you think you’re better than them, or think you’re stupid.

I’m much older than university age, and I overthink social interaction all the time, people have told me all the stuff above after we’ve got to know each other. I much prefer one on one social interaction.

You can get better at it, it takes regular practice. You just might be young and inexperienced with social interaction or you might be introverted like me. It doesn’t mean you’re a problem it just means you’re different. Good luck with uni, I hope you enjoy it.

I think OP needs to have ChatGP revise the draft it prepared for her and request a more succinct version

You were fine, people are allowed to be introverted and you made an effort not to be completely silent, which would be weird. The person who kept bugging you to talk was annoying. You need to say something like “Hey, I’m new here, can you just give me a chance to warm up? Pressuring me isn’t helping!” The majority of the group sound really nice.

No fear of that with people as long-winded as the OP around!

Me too. I would hope if my uni-aged child was having difficulties and fixated on something/overthought a social interraction that someone would listen kindly and give kind advice - but apparently not on MN, if it’s to someone else struggling, which is depressing, actually.

You have a point but put it kindly. Costs nothing to be kind, does it?

It's called providing context.

Not struggling; it's just too detailed and repetitive.
Tech is decreasing attention spans, but giving up on this isn't proof.

I'd say it was somewhat symptomatic myself.

OP you are worrying far too much and the worry is interfering with getting to know these people. It takes time. Just be there and have the odd conversation and concentrate on the activity, whether it is climbing or shopping.

I'm reading Middlemarch; no issue with that.

Didn’t read it all but you say ‘they were taking amongst themselves’ a lot. Do you mean they were talking and you weren’t joining in 🤷‍♀️

Are you male? I realised half way through you probably are.

You are definitely over thinking and that sounds as if it is linked to confidence. Building up confidence takes practice - some of which will be excruciating - but is usually better in a smaller group. This sounds like a large group. Are you all first years?

Look for smaller groups and invest some time getting to know ‘your people’. You don’t need to get on with everyone but having a few people who enrich your life is a good thing.

If you like eating alone and having time alone that’s fine - it may re-energise you, but meeting others for lunch /coffee in small groups can be a good way to build up a relationship. Low pressure because you are eating as well, so can just listen.

It is hard work when someone is incredibly quiet and doesn’t say much (and I say that as someone who is comfortable alone, and likes a bit of silence), so practice responding and keeping a conversation going. Just don’t overthink it. When you are with the right people it will be easy. If it’s incredibly difficult these might not be the right people.

Good luck! You’ll find your tribe I’m sure.

My guess is that you’re all international students. I’m a therapist at a university that has lots and I hear these stories day in day out! (The fact that you’re doing wholesome activities and not just going drinking makes me lean towards international but all students have these issues)

top tips:
stop ruminating!
focus your attention on how others are responding and not on how your think you’re coming across.
ask follow up questions and don’t wait to be spoken to.
be patient, friendships take time to build

When trying to make friends you need to be your 'best' self. So authentically you, whether that's a talker or more of a listener, but making a special effort to be polite, responsive and interested in others.
That may require you to go a little outside your comfort zone in instigating conversation, but shouldn't need a personality change or adopting fake behaviour to be accepted. Because friend groups will only work for you if you can be who you are.
It sounds like you did nothing wrong in the group, and the issue was about your main friend wanting you to integrate more than you did. Possibly because she didn't want to feel responsible for looking after you.
It also sounds like your expectations were a bit high. Being new to a group often involves a feeling of tagging on at first until you get to know people and have more confidence to participate.

Wow, that’s probably the most replies I’ve ever gotten. Thank you to everyone who took the time to read and help me out. I do admit I went into detail a lot, I’ve been told even by close friends that I’m bad at storytelling and getting to the point.

Anyway I saw a lot of similar questions so I’ll try to clear most things up.

I’m a guy, I’m 20 and this is second year actually. The so called handshakes weren’t actual formal handshakes, they were “dap-ups” but I thought I’d refer to them as handshakes to sound a bit more formal. So not shaking hands like grown men but dapping each other up is how a lot of us greet these days.

I admit it sounds like I’ve just started uni, but I already made some friends from last year and that friend I talked about was from the friend group we had last year.
We all met at freshers and I managed to click right in. I talked to all of them pretty easily and we went out plenty of times, made lots of memories and first year was generally good.
In that first year group I got closer with two other guys who I saw much more frequently than the rest.

I kind of lost that group now though. After first year ended most of us didn’t talk for the summer and drifted apart, some even left the group and two moved universities this year.

The guy I used to be closest with now rubs me the wrong way because he’s made some weird racist comments either in text or in person, like recently referring to me as the n word with a w because I’m white (he can’t say it either way?). I told him not to say that and he apologised, but a few days ago he did it again so it’s not looking great. I barely speak to him anymore since I gave it more thought and realised he’s a bit weird. Last year he even admitted to being racist himself over text, and I told him I couldn’t do with that but his excuse was “I’m sorry I know” and that “half of the people at uni are racist”.

The other now shares a flat with two other friends and I went over a few times to hang out in sept and oct this year, but I remember that in June he made a racist comment towards my girlfriend and I now feel like if I keep hanging out with him I’d be endorsing or tolerating it so I’ve largely stopped talking to him as well. My closer friends from before university said they wouldn’t care what someone else had to say about their gf and as I didn’t confront him there and then but rather I was unamused by his joke and said “bruh”. I could either bring it up now a few months later and ask for an apology or move past it unless he does it again.

So second year I’ve lost most of my uni friends as I’ve had to cut two close ones off feel free to call me out if I was wrong or judgemental on them but I have a guilty conscience if someone does something like racism and I still hang out with them. That’s why I compulsively cut some people off and are mostly by myself or that archery friend now.

The closest people I have are my secondary school friends who I still talk to daily and go out with every month or so, so outside uni I’m fine but I need to make uni friends so I’m not constantly by myself on campus too. There are people on my course that when I see I dap up and have a conversation with, but again they’re mostly acquaintances I don’t talk to outside of when I run into them on campus.

That’s mostly the context, a fallen apart first year friend group and me having to cut people off caused me to lose my uni group, and I’ve been unsuccessful in trying to click with new people.
I think second year’s a bit late for me to try making friends because most people are already in solid groups from first year. I could try reignite the old group again as I do text some of them here and there and they have expressed that they miss our fun times last year

Me too. I thought people were here to help and advise. Find it very sad that people can't give the time to read.

This! I'm shocked at the rudeness and lack of empathy in some responses. Not everyone is confident talking to strangers! These sound like uncomfortable meetings in which all but that last man made minimal effort to include the OP, and the 'friend' doesn't seem at all understanding. Frankly I'd ditch the lot of them, they're at least unfriendly and at most were excluding the OP. I would have found this upsetting too, if I'd elected to go to Uni (and these kind of situations were one of the reasons I didn't).

I'm 57 and have learned over the decades not to waste time on people if we don't 'click' fairly quickly; if conversation is stilted and awkward then I'm content to think that we're just on different wavelengths. Some here maybe need to remember that there is nothing wrong with being introverted - introverts have their own positive qualities, just as extroverts do. As MiddleChildX says, you will find your tribe, however long that takes. In the meantime, remember that there is nothing wrong with you!

People with manners getting introduced to others for the first time?

You sound a lot like me when I was younger. Very shy and social interaction was often painful. It sounds like the other girls weren’t particularly welcoming, but you didn’t help yourself much either by not initiating any conversation with them either. I know it’s hard, but at uni for example, you can always ask people what course they’re on, where they come from… You said they go to archery soc so you could ask about that…

One thing I’ve found over the years is, when you’re trying to make new friends, try not to make assumptions about what they are thinking or how it’s going to go. So for instance, the second time you met them, you said something like “I assumed it would be like before where they didn’t talk to me, and they didn’t”. But that sort of thinking can become a self-fulfilling prophecy, where you subconsciously act more reserved - which unfortunately comes across as unfriendliness. A better thing to do is go into every interaction assuming the best - assume they want to make friends too but maybe they were shy too, last time, or that last time they weren’t feeling their best. Tell yourself this is the day you will make friends with them, smile warmly, and then ask them about themselves. Maybe you won’t end up being friends with them, but at least it’s practice for next time.

You sound like a really decent person, OP. I wish you all the best, which you do deserve. Standing up for your principles isn’t easy, especially when you’re young and in a different environment. I’m sure you’ll attract loads of equally decent ppl with a moral compass such as yours. Stay positive and good luck for the future 🌟

Hands up, who else had to Google "dap up" 😆
I've seen my teen do it, but had no idea that's what it's called.

Anyway, don't give up on making friends this year OP. You have a whole lifetime of trying to make friends ahead. Better to get the practice in now! It's a myth that most people keep their childhood or uni friends as their main friends through life. They often change as circumstances change and people hit life milestones at different times.

This is a novel.

Maybe get to the point in 2 short paragraphs.