Was I the problem in this group?

[pxseyocto]

I have a friend at university who I’m pretty close with, probably my closest uni friend.

She recently got into archery society, found a friend group and invited me to go rock climbing with them in November. I was pretty excited since I thought it’d be good to make some friends. Once I met them there were two guys and three girls including my good friend. I shook hands with the guys and said hello to everyone, but it was initially sort of awkward since we’d thought I’d be able to get them into their first session for free (as I’d signed up there the year before and the friend mentioned something like if an existing member brings along friends they get to go free). However that didn’t work and we all had to pay individually for a session. So it was off to a bad start but I moved past and got to climbing. I didn’t really talk to the girls as I was pretty shy, we just waited for the guys to change and then we all went to climb.

I noticed from then on, that the group was mostly talking among themselves. We all had goes at climbing the same wall and when it was my turn they did give me tips and answer my questions, but apart from small talk and a few sentences they didn’t talk to me much. I could tell they were all comfortable with each other and I was kind of the outlier there, and I thought that was normal since obviously I’d just met them. I mainly kind of followed them around and had goes at climbing or pointing out which walls to do, but was mostly talking to the friend I knew already.
At one point we all got to climb one wall and I was kind of struggling at the end, when they helped me out and one of the guys pulled me up to get to the top with them. It was good and we had a sort of jokey conversation on the way down the ladder as to who should go before who.

An hour or so of climbing and one girl had to leave. I followed shortly after since I was meeting with another friend. When I was saying goodbye we got into a small conversation with the friend and the two guys. They said they were doing a boxing/mma session the next day and if I wanted to come, and I was kind of shy since it would be only me and the two guys, but I said I could and that I’ll see how things go tomorrow. I shook hands with the guys and said goodbye to them and the friend also. Not a great start but it wasn’t too bad as it was the first time meeting.

The next day I think I completely forgot about the boxing/MMA event, but I didn’t get the guys’ numbers or anything and the friend didn’t even follow up about it so I didn’t end up going, not that big of a deal.
I didn’t really expect to see them after that but I didn’t have any harsh feelings towards them, just that they were mostly talking among themselves.

A week or so later, I was eating by myself on a bench outside on campus when I saw the friend with the same group walking by. The friend didn’t see me, but the others pointed out “hey isn’t that your friend” to her, after which she came back and spoke to me. She asked what I was doing alone and I said I was just eating at my regular spot to chill by myself after lessons.

I asked where they were going and she said to an arcade, so I figured let me try and be social and asked if I could come along. She said sure and we followed right after them as they’d gone quite a bit ahead of us while we were talking. I think that in the moment I was happy they recognised me and stopped to say hi, which I took as a good sign that we broke the ice and they were comfortable with me now, so that’s why I got so confident and wanted to go with them.
As me and the friend caught up to her group though, I could tell the vibe was off again and remembered what happened at climbing before and how they mostly spoke to each other and I was the obvious outlier. I realised it’ll probably be the same now so I’d have to try extra hard to talk first, and regretted getting too confident and asking her to join them.

My guess would turn out correct as on the way there they were again mostly speaking among themselves. One of the guys who was also there the week before seemed kind of upset and wasn’t really talking to anyone either, just following quietly at the back like me. I felt kind of awkward and just kept walking along with them. We got to the train and we kind of split up in the carriage with the other guy and the girls in a large group and me, the friend I knew well and the guy who was upset were standing outside of the group, so I was talking to the friend I knew from before. She then told me to go talk to the rest and why I was just standing by myself. I don’t remember how I responded but it was probably trying to defend myself and saying the other guy wasn’t talking much either.

With him though, I noticed that the girls and other guy realised he was kind of upset and asked him if he was okay trying to find out wha was wrong, to which he kind of shrugged them off. With me though, I was just there standing around or following like a sheep as they were again, keeping and talking amongst themselves. I don’t blame them as they knew the guy well and it probably wasn’t normal for him to not talk much, while they barely knew me and had barely spoken to me before.

So back to the train and the friend telling me to talk more. I think at the end she even asked why I was there if I wasn’t gonna talk, to which I took offense. That kinda killed my mood and I saw her as being kind of blunt, saying I might as well go home at that point. I don’t think I’d ever say that to her or any friend of mine if they were left out in my friend group, rather ask them to talk or be fine with them talking to me to at least not be by themselves.

We got out of the station and the way towards the arcade was pretty much the same, them talking amongst themselves and me following around listening. What she said didn’t help me socialise any more at all, probably made me feel more stressed and I wanted to leave at that point but I felt awkward saying it and had no idea how to get myself out so I just stayed. At one point we stopped as some of them had to use the bathrooms so it was me, the friend and the two guys. I stood around quietly agin as the guys weren’t really saying anything to me, and the friend tried again breaking the ice by reintroducing us to each other and telling us to speak and say something and not make it awkward. One of the guys then said “I tried, just letting you know I’ve tried” and the other who was previously quiet and upset said “just let him smile” or something along the lines of that, because I wasn’t saying anything but smiling and walking with them. I still find that rude and backhanded, I think the first guy was trying to say he tried talking to me to no avail, but he hadn’t said a single word to me that whole journey there and I know for a fact if he spoke to me I would’ve carried on a conversation, so no he hadn’t “tried” at all. It really pissed me off even to this day but I didn’t say anything there and then.
I don’t know if the second guy was trying to defend me or make fun of me by saying to let me just smile.

The others then came back and we resumed walking to the arcade. One of the girls actually started a conversation with me then, asking me what I study. I answered and asked what she did etc, asked about archery and commented on her climbing from the week before. So I can socialise and have a conversation, it’s just I need the other person to either start it or just engage with me in the first place. We spoke until we got to the arcade, then they all started talking about who would pay on the card machine as we needed an arcade card with prepaid points inside it to go on the games and machines.

Anyway, we play a few first games and again it was mostly them competing with each other and talking, with me saying something here and there or being given the turn to play. I then spoke to the friend again, who again told me to walk up to the others and talk to them. I got a bit defensive as I was still bitter about her previous comment about why did I come if I wasn’t gonna talk, so I tried to tell her my point of view - that they weren’t talking to me either and that a conversation goes both ways, not just me trying to start convos to no avail while they mostly talk amongst each other and I’m just there outcasted. I wasn’t really keen to go up to them as it would seem like I’m begging to be inserted into the group, but I was confident to have a conversation if one of them included me like the girl who started talking to me on the way there and I reciprocated on.

After that, a third guy arrived who was also a friend of theirs already, and he was actually much nicer. After I said hi to him and we played some games he would turn to me and start conversations with me, ask me about what I do and try to include me or talk to me. That’s when things got better, I was talking to him but also the others if they were nearby or joining in, and we eventually partnered up with the guy for a game where you race with a partner, and competed against them in other games as well. We kind of broke the ice after that and us guys started talking a bit more as a group with me too. We even shared a group hug towards the end which was kind of wholesome, even said we loved each other. So the third guy coming and talking to me helped me bloom a bit like a butterfly and show that I can be talkative when the others are open to include me or initiate.

That was most of it, we went home after that and even the second guy who previously said to let me just smile was telling me a story about their group chat and just funny small talk in general. We all ended up splitting as we took different ways home, and I said bye to everyone. I later saw one of the girls at the end who happened to be going the same way home as me and we spoke about university and stuff until I got off the train.

That was around 2 months ago now, but I just wanted to ask on here if I was really the issue by not talking a lot or if a lot of you would’ve done the same as me, if maybe the vibes were off and if there’s any truth in what I said about a conversation going both ways, not just me the outsider trying to initiate with the already-friends in the group.
Another friend who I asked said I should talk to them and put myself out there and not be quiet especially as they already knew each other well.

Am I also being unreasonable to get upset at the friend’s comment about how I shouldn’t have come if I wasn’t going to talk? The whole group was mainly talking among themselves and I felt like an outlier just being there unable to insert myself into the convo. They weren’t really acknowledging me either or talking to me. Is it unreasonable to expect anyone to try and talk to me then?
I still find that comment kind of blunt from her.
Also the comments from the two guys before we got to the arcade, one who said he “tried” (when he really didn’t at least from my perspective, he was just talking to the girls he knew already and the second guy, barely acknowledging me), and the second who told her to just let me smile.

Do I need to improve my social skills of approaching people and starting conversations, or is it normal to keep quiet and not be keen to integrate if they mainly keep talking among themselves? Or maybe our vibes were just off and I don’t happen to click with them in general?

OP, from their point of view, you blew off two of the guys over the mma/boxing thing, then you join in their arcade trip, but don’t join in the conversation. It’s not a matter of taking over - you just need to add the odd comment here and there, and be friendly, and (most importantly) be interested in them. They’ve told you what they’re doing by way of study - that gives you an “in” to ask about why/what they're hoping to do eventually. You’re all doing sports - ask about how long/when did you first get into it/what’s your favourite/how often do you go climbing - just small talk. If you’re new, and they already all know each other, it’s up to you to be friendly to them. They’ve picked you up to go to the arcade, so involve yourself. It’s no good saying, ”If he had spoken to me,I would have spoken back.” You can initiate a conversation just as well as he can. You need to be proactive, OP - as it is, you’re coming across as rather hard work, and friendships are not about one person putting in all the spadework. The fact that someone said, “Just let him smile” rather implies that you really hadn’t said much at all. You don’t need an invitation to join in a conversation!

Blimey that’s a long post 😴

I think you are massive over thinking everything and sound very hard work to be around, sorry.

There are some really unpleasant people on this thread. If a post is too long for you just jog along to shorter post. OP is already anxious, which makes you feel under threat, so why add to that with pointless unpleasant comments about the post length? None of you have said it to be helpful, you are just being snarky.

OP uni can be a difficult time. These people are probably finding their way in new friendship groups too. Lots of people feel like you in a new group. Thats normal. Most people won’t make an effort to include a new person in a conversation. You do need to try to include yourself. That is hard if you are socially anxious, especially is your anxiety is affecting your processing. I find I freeze more in anxious situations and talk more easily when I feel calm.

Some people find it easier to talk one to one or one to three than in groups like those.

And yes, your friend was rude to make that unhelpful comment and would have made you more, not less, self conscious.

I haven't read it all but the general gist to be honest is you're probably making it awkward by not saying much and silently walking behind them. I'd find that awkward. I appreciate you have some social anxiety but it's good you've put yourself out there to ask to join them. Find some conversation starters to have ready to use and make more effort to proactively chat to them. You can't sit and wait for someone else to talk to you.

OP you are assuming each person in that group is putting thought into their comments - lots of times people just fill airspace with words to keep the flow going. Really you just need to join clubs until you find your tribe - which you will once you find something you like and go regularly to become a “fixture”. And remember the penguins in the kids movie Madagascar - smile &wave, boys! Smile & wave. In other words, don’t overthink, over-interpret, judge. Just swing along as openly positive as you can, with eyes open for your tribe. You sound lovely, you’ll get there!!!

Massive overthinking. I get the impression you’re looking for invitations to talk. You might be better off finding opportunities to ask questions and allow others to talk. Really listen to their answers, show an interest in them.

Your overthinking.

In future make effort to make small talk with everyone. Some you’ll hit it off with, some you won’t. Don’t take it personally.

You should concentrate on speaking more and writing less

Maybe get a journal?

It sounds like you were expecting them to take more responsibility for the interaction that was probably fair. You also sound like your interactions with the men and women were a bit different and that was maybe uncomfortable. Ultimately, if you want to make friends you have to put in the effort - join in conversations, show up to invitations.

Your friend's comment makes me wonder if you were being a bit pointed about not talking and hoping to make the group coax you.

This. I remember an average looking guy being asked about his remarkable success with women. He said, ‘it’s simple really. I ask them questions and listen to their answers’. You are also more likely to find a point of commonality that you can bond over ( top tip, don’t make it an interrogation, but be genuinely interested).

Honestly, it would have been ten times easier if you’d all just gone to a pub and got pissed.

It looks to me you were only invited to the rock climbing because your friend thought you could get them in for free.

When you were invited to the MMA always get phone numbers to make firm arrangements.

You way overthinking the talking thing OP. I know what it's like when you don't seem to gel with an established group. It doesn't sound as if this group is for you, you seem to want to force the easy going friendships and it doesn't work like that.

You can't just stay silent and wait for that person to make you bloom. It does come across like that.

This happened two months ago. It’s not great that you are still processing it -I suggest you move on and create some new experiences.
I think you probably need to join some societies and get some interests so you have other things to think about. I don’t think your friend said anything wrong - she was being honest with you.
Show an interest in people and they will often show an interest back.

I agree with the poster that says they were using you as they thought you could get into climbing for free. That initial scenario itself doesn't sound like a good basis for a friendship - you said your friend invited you and some others climbing but then expected you would get them in free, so sounds like this friend isn't a good friend either.

It does sound like you were socially awkward when meeting others after that. Walking behind and not saying anything isn't going to make people think you are interested in them or being friends. Shaking hands is really formal too, are you a mature student?
Can you rehearse questions to ask people beforehand so you have something to say? You are all at uni and you know what courses they do, so could ask them things about workload, compare hours of study, why they chose that course.
You could also ask them other things if they are new to you - where do you come from? Which accomodation are they living in? Have they done whatever sport it is before?

You need to develop your interpersonal skills. Do you have a part time job? Ever had one? I got a part time job when I was 16 and it's the best thing I ever did to develop my confidence and people skills.

This is too long to read. First thoughts are that you are massively overthinking everything and that it must be very difficult being you. Someone will be along in a minute to ask you if you are neurodiverse 🙄. I think a good way to approach social interactions is to remember - it isn't all about you. Focus on getting to know the others and stop thinking about yourself so much. Think more about whether you like them than whether they like you.

You are overthinking all this way too much. It takes time to become a firm part of an established friendship group and there can be some awkwardness at the start. If you want to become friends you have to accept that, suck it up and yes - push yourself outside of your confort zone to go along despite risking awkward silences or feeling like the outsider and you have to make an effort to do some of the conversation starting.

This stuff comes naturally to some and not to others.

It sounds as though they included you, chatted to you, welcomed you back and you had a fun time overall.

The friend telling you to talk more and initiate conversations is them awkwardly trying to encourage you to throw yourself in more and not rely on them to make friends for you. They're probably doing their best but they're not an expert on starting up friendships either. The group probably has recognised that you come across a little shy and awkward at first - for some of the group that won't be a problem and they'll happily and naturally chat and include you. Some of the others may themselves be a bit quieter and find this part awkward and struggle as well as you are.

What has happened with the group and your friend since this last arcade trip?

I don't think anyone's being unfriendly or unkind, they've been pretty welcoming and they're not experts at expanding their social group either. It's worth muddling through further imo.

No one is right or wrong, but you're massively overthinking this if you can re-tell this story to such length 2 months later.

It can be very awkward to join a group of people who know each other already. It can also be awkward to have someone follow along smiling but not participating to the conversation.

Everyone on this group needs to learn how to be around people who are different. They could have made more of an effort to include you (but probably don't know how), and you could have made more of an effort to talk to everyone (but probably don't know how either).

I'm guessing you're all very young and will get used to the occasional awkwardness in time.

I don't find social situations with new people particularly enjoyable either. Something I found helped a lot when I was younger was putting myself in social situations with low expectations/impact if it didn't go well. It helped me built confidence to engage with people when it did matter.

You could look to join Meetup groups, either social or activity based. You get to meet plenty of people, but rarely see the same people again unless you actively try to. So if it doesn't go well one week, you can just try again at the next event.

Why is this taking up so much space in your head? Do you actually have any friends, because it’s like you’ve become obsessed with this and maybe don’t have any other friends so this was your “chance” and that’s why you’re so weird about it.

It’s really really odd to write so much and be so obsessed with a nothing event.

There are some really unpleasant people on this thread. If a post is too long for you just jog along to shorter post. OP is already anxious, which makes you feel under threat, so why add to that with pointless unpleasant comments about the post length? None of you have said it to be helpful, you are just being snarky.

Thanks for posting this, I was going to say something similar - why write something unpleasant when the poster is obv upset already? Vultures

Ah OP. It reads as though youre very shy and prone to overthinking. You've done really well to ask to join others, that's a great first step. Do you live in halls? Can you join in with them at all? My best advice would be to look at all the clubs/societies and give several a try. Its easier to have a conversation when youre all engaged in an activity you enjoy.

From what you have put you sound to be passive in these settings, waiting for others to start interacting with you, hanging at the back. Perhaps your friend sees this behaviour alot and wanted you to appear more interactive/interested in their friends?