What’s with all the hate for SAHM

[Howarewealldoing]

Following on from a post yesterday( who did work) but everyone assumed they didn’t. If they don’t sign on ,I don’t understand all the negativity. Or why some people get so worked up about something that doesn’t affect them .

I agree that there is often a lot hate.
i am currently a SAHM, I interact with other adults every day, challenge myself in other ways but it doesn't seem to count because it's not paid?
I think I've built a lot of skills actually, but it's all dismissed particularly on here as you aren't paid for it. Often looked down on for 'not having ambitions' lazy, thick etc. Couldn't be further from the truth.
Also seems you can only be an equal partner if you both work- again untrue for me, we are still a team but in different ways.

I’ve been all sides of this, I chose to be a sahm when Dd was small before school started. Initially I went back to work after maternity and it was easy working but I wanted to be at home (we cut right back for this, Dd never went without but we did for a few years and were happy as a family with this decision) I don’t regret it at all, they were some of the happiest days of my life, but they definitely were v hard, isolating at times (even with a large friends mums group & many activities) there was just no break.
Then she started school and I had a short period between starting work again, so was a sahm at home, with child at school and that was hands down the best and easiest time 😂 Definitely jealous of people who have that, but not in a mean way, do what makes you happy

Lol!

I'd actively not employ anyone that was enough of a tit to call staying at home and running the house, as opposed to going to work and running the house, "project managing a household". Tells me everything I need to know about that superstar 😁

There's no shame in saying "I don't work."

And once your kids are in school and you're not providing the childcare are you even a SAHM ? Or are you just unemployed.

That's the crux of it. Staying at home to be a mum to small children is a thing. It's doing the "mother" duties in old fashioned speak. Staying at home when there are no children there is not being a SAHM. It's not working. Unemployed.

Because I'm now the CEO of my organisation, I work around my DC. So I'm home every morning, I take them to school, then I work, I collect them. There is ZERO more "mumming" being done by someone else just sitting at home during the school hours. All our kids aren't there. I am present exactly the same as the person who's been at home all day. With my eldest, I didn't work. To DTwins I was a SAHM.

Nope. Not jealous. I would die of tedium if i didn't work. We are, however, not all the same and some people love it.
Others have decided that it works better for their family, and there are at least some who are coerced into it.

There have been some obnoxiously goady threads about sending everyone off to work/school and then just going back to bed or wrapping up with a hot chocolate and watching tv all day. And they get it in the neck for that, which they are asking for. But they can pack in wittering on about how it is as much of a job as working outside the home if they have made these posts.

tbh, i think it leaves you very exposed financially in later life, and that is one of the reasons it has never appealed for me, aside of the utter tedium of childcare and housework.

I was a SAHM for years, now I work again. Any negativity I got was pure envy.

I do think it’s weird when women (and it’s pretty much always women) are off work long term after having kids. It’s not necessary to not work at all at that point. I think it sends a difficult message to the family that women are there to serve men and children, rather than living their own lives. I also wonder how they motivate their daughters to do well at school etc if the message is you can just have kids and stay in tidying up etc for the rest of your life. Though I also agree that staying home with small kids is one of the hardest jobs you can do.

The debate seems based on the notion that the positions of SAHM & WOHM are permanent and ideologically motivated, which isn’t really the case for most women/families. I’ve been a part-time WOHM after my first was born, a SAHM after my second, full-time WOHM when they were in primary school and back to part-time now they’re secondary age; all based on circumstances including international moves, SEN and family finances.

My kids are only at school 9-3.15, 34 weeks of the year (minus a few inset days). I highly doubt that you and I spend the same amount of time with our kids.

Mumsnet is full of miserable people who seem to view marriage as some sort of leader board of “equal” contributions at all times and who seem to be perpetually expecting to face divorce at any moment.

I’ve always been a WOHM. I went back to work when my twins were 6 weeks old due to financial necessity. I became a homeless single mother of 4-month-old twins when their father tried to strangle me and I left him. It was his house and he was self employed. We weren’t married. I had nothing and have never had a single penny in maintenance since.

What I did have was my twins, a job with a wonderful boss (father of 4) and some amazing friends.

20 years later, I have two wonderful adult children, a proper career with good money and a home I own (albeit still with a mortgage). I did meet another man after 6 years and we eventually moved in together and got married a couple of years after that. I’ve worked full time throughout.

For me there was no other choice and it was the right one for me. My DSis is a SAHM (children also now grown up) and hers was the right choice for her. Fortunately, she had better taste in men and her DH is fab.

Children need childcare and I’ve always thought it a bit strange that we’ve created this whole debate about whether parents should care for their own children. Someone has to. Why not their own mum? Or dad?

There is nothing wrong with either choice but the way out society is structured makes being a SAHP a risky choice for many. I’ve seen so many women sacrifice so much for their families only to be left high and dry in later years. There’s a poster above who highlights the economical and social evidence base around this debate, and it’s not good news for women overall. However, I don’t think the choice is wrong. It’s society that needs to change and value parenting - and those who sacrifice earning potential to do it - more highly.

If SAHPs were much better protected in the event of family breakdown (regardless of marital status) it would do a lot to address the gender dynamic of who becomes the default parent in both stable and separated families.

And once your kids are in school and you're not providing the childcare are you even a SAHM ? Or are you just unemployed.

I’m just unemployed then 😂

I agree with you actually - I can’t call myself a sahm any more now the dcs are all at high school/uni! I never did anyway though - I just said I didn’t work!

It's not generally about being a SAHM to pre-school aged DC though, it's specifically about being a 'SAHM' to school-aged DC.... So basically being free to do what they like when the DC are at school.

I work four days a week (so do have the 'luxury' of six hours free a week) and I admit I am a bit jealous!

I think many people who went back to work today would have preferred to have settled down on the sofa after seeing the DC off to school!

But when I do think about how much easier life would be in some respects if I was a SAHM (one DC also has SEN so there is a lot of additional work to parenting/life admin), I then try and remind myself of the positives.

Out of interest and not a criticism but what do you do all day?

Im the opposite I need work my mh suffers whenever im of for periods of time i need routine and to be around other adults this is why for me part time is the happy medium. So that I do get me time but just not to much of it. I also wouldn't want to work 50/60 hours a week

Agree and from what I’ve seen on numerous parenting forums, a large percentage of SAHMs went back to work once the “free” childcare hours kicked in or once the kids were in full-time school or are only SAHP when the kids are baby/toddlers.

I bet the percentage of SAHM whose kids are in full time school, outsource xyz and just do what they want during those hours is way smaller than some want to believe it to be.

Maybe they genuinely do think they're busy though? There are also people in my office that complain about being sooooo busy (yet always have time to complain about it to anyone who'll listen instead of cracking on with it) and in reality are just expected to do some work!

There are always people like this and yes, they are annoying, but they'd be annoying whatever they were doing 😂

I’ve had exactly the same experience as you. Wouldn’t change it for the world.

That’s a good point. In the job I did before having dc’s we all did a fair bit of being busy doing nothing. And trying to look productive when the big boss came around - it was mostly a doss and listening to friends who work this is often still the case!

Yes, I do ultimately think that the novelty of not working would wear off.

As I said, I do see the positives of working, eg self-esteem, increase in confidence, something else to focus on that isn't worrying about DC(!).

Perhaps I'd rather just work 2-3 days a week (I am also jealous of those people! 😁).

Jealousy with sprinkles on the top. If they don’t have the option then no one should.

Our Head of EDI at work did me a solid favour by giving her HR colleagues a clout about my request for compressed hours (5 days into 4).

They were bleating on about how they were worried about my ability to cope with 35h over 4 days and how they were worried about wellbeing. She told them to cop on to the way they were underestimating women, and that I'd probably be working less overall on longer days because the childcare juggle is harder by being needed for more days.

And that unless they caught on to the benefits of flexibility to working mums, they'd quickly find themselves a loser if they were forcing me towards working fewer hours rather than earning a full salary with a different pattern.

I think there are people on both “sides” (don’t want to say sides but can’t think of a better word right now) who are unpleasant about the others.
WOHMs who talk about laziness or relying on a man or being a bad example blah blah
And SAHMs who talk about not wanting someone else raising the children and why bother having them if you won’t see them blah blah.
And then that kind of rhetoric makes people who didn’t have negative opinions to begin with get defensive and then leads to the arguments where it all gets stirred up.

In general though, leaving aside SAHM issues, I really hate the assumption that gets thrown around fairly often that if a woman doesn’t like something, she must be jealous. It gets said on threads about all sorts of things “oh she’s probably jealous of you”. No, she just has opinions you disagree with. People have opinions on all sorts of things. Some of those opinions are bullshit. Some of them are nasty and judgemental. They do not all automatically come from jealousy.

For me it highlights inequality. 'I don't have to worry about money', well good for you but in the real world....

It’s really very simple
Stay at home mother- You are lazy and setting a bad example
Working mother- you are lazy letting someone else raise your kids and setting a bad exmaple
Part time working mother- oh so lazy, Bet your colleagues have to pick up your work. Bad example
A Father who does anything - oh isn’t he wonderful

As women we should be supporting each other and not tearing each other down. Just do what works for you and your family

I’m basically not a fan of misogyny and the patriarchy so the whole idea of a SAHM just riles me.

I was brought up to value a career and financial independence and I’m glad I have that. I’m never going to be a fan of trad wife nonsense I’m afraid.