I know it’s not all men, but…

[Beguiledbeehive]

…is it all men?

My husband of 20 years has inspired this bitter outlook on life. I discovered he’s been a liar and a cheat since before we were married. Visiting brothels since his teens, cheating, sexting, extreme porn use, lying all that time. Married me, we had kids, we had what I believed and looked from the outside an ideal life.

I had no idea, literally none. And I am not a stupid person, I am not a pushover. I counted my blessings every day. Life was good… so I thought.

He showed himself to be a supportive loving husband and dad at every turn and I never suspected a thing. He nursed me through cancer, prayed for my recovery, he gave support to his family and mine through many difficult times. He was the friend you wanted on your side as he’d do anything to help.

Anyone who knows him thought he was loyal, reliable, would do anything for his family. Honestly he’s the last person you’d expect. He’s had us all fooled.

Which is what’s got me thinking, if he’s capable, is anyone? There are so many women on here who find out these awful things about their partners, who’d never expect it.
We all have friends, know people, learn about people who you think you know who shock you with their secret behaviour. And they’re only the ones we find out about. How many just never get caught?

I realise I’m scorned and bitter, but if I’d read this post a year ago I’d have thought “No, not my husband, never.” But here we are.

How do you ever trust again? I don’t think I could. I don’t think I want to. I had a boyfriend as a teen into early 20s who cheated but I thought that was young age behaviour. I was married to this man for over 20 years and it turns out I never really knew him. Everything we had was not enough. Why are (some?) men like this? And is it actually all of them? You think you know someone, but do you really?

Do you ACTUALLY think men’s and women’s sexual morality is the same?? How could you really believe that, given the absolute mountains of evidence throughout the ages of the depths that men will sink to in order to satisfy their baser urges/ kinks/ whims??
Do you really think whole websites devoted to raping drugged people or abusing children would exist if men didnt?
I am utterly fascinated by the level of cognitive dissonance.

Why would they need to be single to enjoy all that?

Me neither, infact sex for me is better with no emotional connection.

No sorry I was unclear. It's childish to insist it's an objective definite end to a relationship. Some people would not consider it to be. If op or anyone else thinks it is then obviously that's the deciding factor.

It’s not a minority is me though is it, and even off mumsnet it’s not a minority. It’s a lot of men, and much more than a minority

I read these threads and see posters saying that it’s not all men because they are married to the most lovely man who would never do that. Except so was I and yet my DH did. They are the loveliest, most caring, sweet man…until you catch them cheating.

Agree.

As sex is a protected characteristic this is hate speech.

Oh yeah. Hate speech. Sure it is 😆

I was having a conversation with my husband at the weekend about how grateful we are not to be in the dating pool in the modern world; it all looks so exhausting. He said something like "do you not fancy Tinder, find yourself a younger model?" - type comment.

My response: "Actually, I would never date again. On reflection, I don't think I actually like men very much".

I don't mean in a sexuality way, but personality-wise. I just don't actually like most men and wouldn't choose to spend my time on them in the future. I like my husband, to be clear. We're best mates and it's all very comfortable and happy. But to go back to the beginning with the whole "what's your favourite colour?" and "what was your first job?", getting to know each other crap? No ta.

I am married to a lovely, kind,
loyal man (who nowadays rarely leaves the house except for running unless he’s with me) but I’d never say with total certainty that he’s never/would never cheat.

When he went out to work every day he certainly would’ve had the opportunity 🤷‍♀️

The only person in my immediate family I’ve known to cheat was my sweet, quiet little mousey SiL!! We had no idea that underneath it all she was a scarlet woman!

Sex is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010 so applies to employment legislation, etc. Sex does not exist as a qualifying characteristic in terms of Hate Crime. Only 5 of the 9 EA characteristics are monitored by the CPS - race, religion, disability, sexual orientation and transgender identity. The Law Commission reviewed this a few years ago and decided there was no need to add sex or misogyny to the list of hate crime qualifiers. Make of that what you will.

It isn't hate speech. It is, however, absolute nonsense.

Same here. DH is the same variety of weirdo as me, and we’ve been together since we were teenagers. If anything happened to him, there’s no way in hell I’d be bothering with men in the future. It’s been years since I met one I’d even consider as a friend, never mind a life partner. Even the ones who aren’t actively foul tend to be exhausting and have main character syndrome.

Its absolute nonsense, all the evidence points to men being far 'worse' than women - prostitution, violent porn, trafficking, reddit boards dedicated to 'struggle fucks', incels, upskirting, rape and sexual assualt, now using ai to produce naked pictures of women. I just dont understand what compels some women to leap to mens defense and claim women are just as bad despite all the evidence. I think they either get off on policing women, or are just misogynists that prioritise men at all costs.

🤣🤣🤣

How is it childish to insist it for one’s own relationship? You called OP “childish” for her stand on her OWN relationship?

I just dont understand what compels some women to leap to mens defense

I have this question as it is consistent and one-sided.

Not just on this topic but a woman will post that she does not date uneducated / poor / short etc men and a bunch of women will tear her apart for dating to exclude men from her preferences.

Yet the opposite NEVER happens. A thread like the above on a male dominated site (just peruse Reddit or Youtube) would never see massive pushback from men. Men will never criticise another man’s dating preferences etc.

No man on those sites would ever say “for men saying this - do you have daughters?!”

I am genuinely fascinated by women’s insistence on carrying men’s water for them in a way that is not reciprocated.

Good point.

Reddit and YouTube are hardly comparable to Mumsnet though. If it was Middle Class Wholesome Dad Forum, I’m sure someone would say something.

I said something similar to DH recently. We’ve been together 25 years, I foresee no reason why we would split up although obviously can’t rule it out as a certainty with half our lives still ahead of us.

We were discussing wills and inheritance and potential for re-marriage and I said I wouldn’t bother. I could potentially see myself setting up a co-habitation with another single woman to share time with and have a support network but I just have no interest in any relationships with men aside from my husband and don’t see the appeal in ever starting a new relationship. I get on well with most of my male work colleagues and friends but wouldn’t want to have more than a surface level relationship with them.

Where are those forums for men? Where is the equivalent to MN, where non-sexist, decent family men (I don’t see why they would need to be middle-class) gather to talk about parenting, family life, balancing work and childcare, the demands of step- parenting, VAWG and what they as men can do about it?

Oddly, men haven’t felt the need to create those communities. Instead they either hang out in sexist, machismo-driven spaces, or they come here (where far too many of them haunt the Sex topic, or barge into threads about periods and childbirth making inappropriate comments).

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Spot on!

My ex husband is a lecturer in women’s studies. Male feminist. Mildly famous for talking about feminism, violence against women.

I divorced him when I found out his decade long (then, it will be more now) habit of hiring prostitutes to abuse and live out rape and sadistic fantasies with.

He was always the perfect husband, perfect father, perfect son. There were no signs.

You can’t trust any of them.