I know it’s not all men, but…

[Beguiledbeehive]

…is it all men?

My husband of 20 years has inspired this bitter outlook on life. I discovered he’s been a liar and a cheat since before we were married. Visiting brothels since his teens, cheating, sexting, extreme porn use, lying all that time. Married me, we had kids, we had what I believed and looked from the outside an ideal life.

I had no idea, literally none. And I am not a stupid person, I am not a pushover. I counted my blessings every day. Life was good… so I thought.

He showed himself to be a supportive loving husband and dad at every turn and I never suspected a thing. He nursed me through cancer, prayed for my recovery, he gave support to his family and mine through many difficult times. He was the friend you wanted on your side as he’d do anything to help.

Anyone who knows him thought he was loyal, reliable, would do anything for his family. Honestly he’s the last person you’d expect. He’s had us all fooled.

Which is what’s got me thinking, if he’s capable, is anyone? There are so many women on here who find out these awful things about their partners, who’d never expect it.
We all have friends, know people, learn about people who you think you know who shock you with their secret behaviour. And they’re only the ones we find out about. How many just never get caught?

I realise I’m scorned and bitter, but if I’d read this post a year ago I’d have thought “No, not my husband, never.” But here we are.

How do you ever trust again? I don’t think I could. I don’t think I want to. I had a boyfriend as a teen into early 20s who cheated but I thought that was young age behaviour. I was married to this man for over 20 years and it turns out I never really knew him. Everything we had was not enough. Why are (some?) men like this? And is it actually all of them? You think you know someone, but do you really?

Im So sorry. But it sounds like the reason there were no signs is that he didn't feel guilty, it is much easier to not show signs of you genuinely don't have a conscience imo.
Although how that could be and him not be some kind of sociopath I don't know.
Has he expressed any remorse now you have found out? HOW did you find out?

I do hope this is past tense and you are now away from him.

@Beguiledbeehive I’m a guy and while I don’t do it, I know guy buddies who do. I’d argue based on my friendship group, 95% have either cheated or used sex workers at some point.

I have no clues if the signs are there for the lasses but the guys make jokes about it in group chat. Seems to be the norm to be some kind of dip tbh.

Christ OP, I’m so so sorry. I had a similar shock with my now ex-DH - married for 4 years, together for 9. He had a ONS (he claims) with a sex worker and contracted genital herpes, tried to convince me she had only given him oral sex (basically impossible to contract genital herpes from oral sex). Fortunately we didn’t have sex after that so I never contracted it myself but I tried to work through it anyway - I was willing to potentially contract herpes to keep my marriage alive. But he refused to touch me after that, developed severe OCD, wouldn’t even kiss me on the lips. Didn’t have sex for 2 years, we were in the process of IVF anyway and I got pregnant a few months after that bombshell. He then became addicted to alcohol and clubbing (in his late 30s with zero indication or interest in those activities for the entire time I’d known him) and was out clubbing at 4am when my water’s broke. I eventually ended it when DD was 10 weeks old because he wanted to go out drinking despite promising me he would change.

BUT: I don’t believe it’s all men. I have had a couple of healthy and very wonderful relationships since with good men. Everyone has their flaws but the flaws of our exes are extreme and not common, in my honest opinion. That said, I have no desire to ever marry, or live with a man again or have any more children. Men for me are an nice optional bonus in life but I will never be put in the position where my life crumbles because of someone else’s poor choices and refusal to seek help.

Maybe that’s not a perfect solution, I have faith enough in men to be in relationships and fall in love. But I also feel freedom to do that knowing I won’t ever be as vulnerable as I was again.

Also - to any posters saying their husbands are similar and they can leave - I was you once. I did everything I could, bent over backwards. The absolute relief and rest in my nervous system and mental health since getting rid of my ex DH has been life changing. Hard at first, but truly the best decision I have ever made in my life. Ever. And it’s so bloody nice to kiss and have sex again.

I used to work in an office behind a guy who booked sex workers and visited them during his lunch break. Used to do it on the work computer. Photo of his wife and kids on his desk.
How would the wife know! He did it during his lunch break.
He's still married.

Thanks for your honestly - I can’t get past the point you made; 95% of your friends have cheated or used sex workers!? Either us women are dumb to believe there are many good men out there or you need a better friend circle…

There are studies of these things, infidelity amongst married men is around 20%, use of prostitutes around 12%.

So statistically not uncommon. Regarding infidelity, I think it often comes down to opportunity, most have the potential to cheat. To be fair that's probably becoming more the case with women too.

I had men in the office/on site who were the same. A lot of "banter" between the lads about what they'd done at the weekend while also displaying photos of their families on phones, desks and social media.
One year a lot of them went on a group weekend away and held a pull a pig competition, the results of which were hung on the mens toilet wall. That was nice.
I put up with a hell of a lot of shit for that job, including being regularly touched and asked out (by married men).

Was true for me

I can only speak for myself in saying I’ve never cheated on a GF / DP or either my ex-‘D’W or my current wife. I had opportunities, but was dragged up with a moral code.

My ex-wife cheated on me. An ex-GF physically assaulted me more than once and was mentally abusive before she ramped up her behaviour.

Would I therefore be justified in thinking ‘all women’ are not to be trusted?

I used to work in Oil and Gas and was generally surprised at the amount of the male expats who took the opportunity to cheat when presented. It was obscenely high.

Not necessarily with sex workers in fact more turned down sex workers than expected.

No it’s not all men, in fact I’ve been cheated on several times by women but never cheated myself, I suspect women cheat just as often if not more often than men.

Out of my friends I would say maybe 10% will have been to a prostitute and none of them would have been with a partner at the time. It does happen but way less than you would think from what you read on here.

As a single woman, the amount of married men/men in relationships who have propositioned me is shocking.. and I know a lot of their partners as friends! And not just the obvious sleazy types.. the “good” ones and the quiet ones too. Same happened to my mum when she divorced my dad.. all the neighbours and my dads friends came on to her! She could have outed them at any time.
I realised a few years ago that I would never fully trust one again but just use them for what I need. So sex, friendship, help with stuff, some minor emotional connection. And honestly my wellbeing is so much better for acknowledging that they are just here to have sex and will do whatever they can to get it. It’s freeing!
Sorry he did that to you, it’s insane the lengths he went to to hide his true self

I don't know if it's all men but...

Question,

If he hid his tracks so well, how did you find out?

Yep glenda, I'm old too and also been married twice. I naively used to think men had to be a certain "type" to cheat, to be abusive or to be self-centred bastards. Now I know it's most of them on some level or other.

@Playingvideogames "I think it’s 99% of them and the rest are asexual, gay or in a monastery."

This just about sums it up nicely.

My STBEXH is gay, yet dated, proposed and was married to me, had kids and then cheated.

I always thought NAMALT, but I actually dont know anymore. WE were together 10 years, the kids are still young so I'll need to have contact with him fir many years to coparent, but I honestly don't think I'll ever trust another man again ever.

And he didn't come to the realisation he was gay after many years, turns out he had sex with men before we got together, so it overwhelmingly feels like he's used me to have children without the faff of a surrogate

What an eye opening, depressing thread I’ve started.

I mean, just because a person can doesn’t mean they should. I can’t get my head around it honestly, where are the morals? Like I could cheat and do all manner of things whether I’m single or otherwise, but I wouldn’t because I have morals. Why would someone do things that can potentially hurt their loved ones? Why would they want to? I can’t get my head around it at all.

People saying it’s not all men… I really hope it’s not, but how do you know? There are the ones we know about/find out about, but what if the others we just never find out about? So bloody depressing having that thought.

And those saying they don’t know, they can’t trust and that’s why they’ll never put themselves in that position again, but if they do they’re ready for it (expecting it?) and have a backup plan. Again, how bloody depressing!

Thank you for sharing your experiences of people you know or people you’ve had the misfortune of being with. All these bantering bull shitters acting like the family man, but then being perverts and cheats when with their mates. HOW BLOODY DEPRESSING!

Feel sad and worried for my daughters, and all young women really. Or all women!

I’m glad so many of you who have had these awful experiences have been able to move on and I really hope you have found true and undoubtable happiness and contentment, and I hope any man you are with deserves you.

@babylone My gosh, you poor love. See that’s the kind of feeling I have every now and again, it’s fleeting but it’s there. It’s fucking awful that anyone should make you feel like that, and that’s your husband, the one who is supposed to love you and care for you and protect you. How can they have us feeling like this?! Like what you’ve described is in some way acceptable or something to be grateful for?
Hearing someone else say it like yourself I think “No fucking way, no, not having that” but why when it’s yourself do you second guess yourself? I hope you find happiness as you and your kids deserve better. And soon, so you can look back sooner and realise you can be so much happier than this man is making you.
Would you mind sharing the titles of the books you mentioned? I’d be interested in looking into them.

I really hope this isn’t for real. Is that really where we’re at or hopefully this is a troll.

This is an excellent course, it helps recognise redflags in men
https://www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/

I do think it's most men. I think testosterone overrides what they could be like as reasonable humans.

I think SOME of them start to become more 'human' or reasonable as they age, but not by all means all. Some are fuck boys with zimmer frames.

My 1st ex, while I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole, is an improvement on the man I left 30 years ago. He's still got all the other faults, but that drive for sex and attraction to women, seems have worn off a bit. Same with the more recent ex. He's woken up a bit (not as much as number 1) but far too late. No woman would take him on now.

I honestly pity them. I think between their hormones and the get-out-of-jail-free card patriarchy gives them, they're ruined. It's such a waste. I look at the lovely little boys at the local primary school, bursting with possibilities and life, and WHAM testosterone hits them at puberty and they become obsessed with their cocks.

See this is it, that was probably me. What the fuck?! I shouldn’t be shocked at this point. But this is what I mean, is this what men do? Clearly some do.

Is it that all the bantering lads talking about acting a certain way and indeed many actually acting that way, have they all just convinced themselves this is normal? My husband has never been a bantering lad, he was so bloody normal, straight laced, devoted, loyal, caring, the rest of it. Really does feel like a case of if he could do it then anyone could, honestly.

I’ll have a ticket for the “It’s ALL men and it’s fact show” please.

I am a man. I can say hand in heart that you are right OP.

I don’t get cheating at all, I just don’t, opportunity or not, have your cake and eat it, whatever.
But do these men not change when they have kids? Well clearly not, but do they not have kids and think
I don’t want to be that man for my kids sake. I want to be their role model. I want them to look up to me. I want to be everything they deserve. I want to give them the best life I can, I won’t break their hearts by risking our family.
Don’t you look into your babies faces and want the best for them? To do the best for them? To make the world the best you can for them? To protect them from any upset, to not be the reason for any of their upset. I just couldn’t.

This is nonsense. I'm truly sorry for the OP's situation, but that generalisation isn't remotely helpful.