I know it’s not all men, but…

[Beguiledbeehive]

…is it all men?

My husband of 20 years has inspired this bitter outlook on life. I discovered he’s been a liar and a cheat since before we were married. Visiting brothels since his teens, cheating, sexting, extreme porn use, lying all that time. Married me, we had kids, we had what I believed and looked from the outside an ideal life.

I had no idea, literally none. And I am not a stupid person, I am not a pushover. I counted my blessings every day. Life was good… so I thought.

He showed himself to be a supportive loving husband and dad at every turn and I never suspected a thing. He nursed me through cancer, prayed for my recovery, he gave support to his family and mine through many difficult times. He was the friend you wanted on your side as he’d do anything to help.

Anyone who knows him thought he was loyal, reliable, would do anything for his family. Honestly he’s the last person you’d expect. He’s had us all fooled.

Which is what’s got me thinking, if he’s capable, is anyone? There are so many women on here who find out these awful things about their partners, who’d never expect it.
We all have friends, know people, learn about people who you think you know who shock you with their secret behaviour. And they’re only the ones we find out about. How many just never get caught?

I realise I’m scorned and bitter, but if I’d read this post a year ago I’d have thought “No, not my husband, never.” But here we are.

How do you ever trust again? I don’t think I could. I don’t think I want to. I had a boyfriend as a teen into early 20s who cheated but I thought that was young age behaviour. I was married to this man for over 20 years and it turns out I never really knew him. Everything we had was not enough. Why are (some?) men like this? And is it actually all of them? You think you know someone, but do you really?

Of course men can compartmentalise sex much better than women. On the whole, how easy is it for a man to have sex with a women with whom he isn't at all emotionally connected (or even despises), vs a woman?

How many times do you see in MN the line 'foreplay begins with the dishes' or something to that effect, ie women need to to feel connected emotionally all day in order to want to have sex at night. You can be pretty sure for men it doesn't begin with the dishes. Heck, men can quite happily jump into the act without any foreplay at all.

We are all animals wrapped up in a layer of societal norms. Not giving men a free pass at all, not their no 1 fan and if they weren’t around the world would be a better place, but really they just want to act like other animals. They are the basic model. Women have embraced monogamy more but men might love just one woman but see nothing wrong in shagging as many others as they can. Sex is sex to them, just a physical act. Most women call it lovemaking, but that is putting a romantic spin on it, men pretend it is but to them it is almost a right to get their end away. They do the romance thing because society expects it of them, and in most cases it is a way of getting sex. The internet has made sex hook ups like ordering a pizza. Easy peasy. Depressing.

Women are fed a load of old Mills & Boon, but like the books, relationships between male and females are bad fiction. I am old now. I see men dispassionately now. They are of no use to me, nor me them I expect, but getting to this stage is one of the unsung positives of ageing.

I was watching a programme at the weekend which had a segment on elephant seals near Antarctica. The males had a harem of 200 females. That’s living the dream for men. That is what they want. Feel quite sorry for men in a way, in thrall to their flappy appendages.

Sorry OP for your despair which is palpable. It was never about you.

It is an awful lot of men.

For those who say it’s all men, do you have sons? Because every single man is some woman’s son and if it’s all men, your DSs will also turn out that way.

A man is only as faithful as his opportunities. Sad but true.

As much as I’ve agreed with this thread… I have to disagree with this. Women cheat a lot too and definitely make time for affairs. And it’s not a recent thing, my mum has so many stories of her friends and relatives cheating. Many women love sex and seek it out.

I've mentioned it before but our large nationwide company had get togethers (no partners). These normally were in a hotel over a couple of nights with accommodation provided. By many of the women who attended it was seen as a chance for hook ups with people they only saw at these events.

I think a lot of people are only as faithful as the opportunities they have. On Mumsnet its mostly men though as that's the nature of Mumsnet.

That is true. Many posters on here seem to believe the outdated trope that women can’t enjoy casual sex, that women need to have emotional connection to have sex,
and that women usually don’t orgasm from sex. But it doesn’t overly surprise me because I think there are a fair few on here who think that sex is for procreation only.

If you consider cheating, emotional affairs, using sex workers and pestering to have sex without fully enthusiastic consent.... then in my experience, I would say that it could be any man given the right set of circumstances and opportunities.

They are just that entitled to do / get what they want (sex or attention or power) that they are willing to betray or hurt women (even those they love) to get it.

Yes I think it’s projection. They think all men = sex mad and women = lie back and think of england. Fuck that!
There are SO many threads on here about women who are with men who don’t want sex anymore, and the woman is miserable. then you see the threads about affairs.
And who are all these men cheating with? It’s mostly women who are also in relationships as they both have something to lose.

😳

It's utterly ridiculous. I don't know any women who are just putting up with sex for their husband's sake. This site seems stuck in the mid twentieth century in more ways than one. I am 42 and I don't recognise any of these outmoded ways of thinking. I think that this site skews quite old, but it's more than that. The women I know who are older than me aren't like the archetypal idea of a woman that MN posters promote either.

No, not true. Some men cheat, some women cheat. Some men don't, some women don't. You get cheats of both sexes. Having a moral code is not sex dependent.

I think it's incredibly childish to think this is the end of an otherwise good relationship. Do you know how many men leave their partners when they develop cancer?

It might be a deal breaker for op but maybe she values other stuff more.

Yeah OP FFS be grateful your man didnt leave you when you had cancer, what more do you want? 🙄
Pavement I really don’t think endless lying, cheating and using prostitutes is ever the basis of a “good relationship “.
As for women’s and men’s differences around sex, of course we are different, but plenty of women can separate sex and love (or the dishes !) Most women though, even when they do decide to cheat don’t reach the depths of utter depravity that men seem to.

I don’t have to feel emotionally connected to a man to have sex with him (or at least did not) I don’t think all women need an emotional connection but I do agree that men are more able to compartmentalise sex than women.

Which is just another reason for me not to date if he is guaranteed to cheat.

The orgasm gap is well established. It’s not a trope to acknowledge the data on this.

Well we are all shaped by experience. I am your age and have two female friends who are very open that their current sex life is only to keep their partner happy. They personally have zero interest. I don’t think it’s true for all women at all but equally incorrect to say no women have sex they rather would not solely to keep their husbands happy.

So if OP decided to shag loads of random men behind her husbands back, being disrespectful to their commitment and risking his sexual health, would he be “childish” to leave her?

I agree that women can enjoy sex etc, but surely everything you’ve said (which can be true) only stands if the woman is single?

Yes , I love sex & often do hook ups , but I’m single & would never cheat if I’m in a relationship .
I’m separated 10 years , he was an ass & I still didn’t cheat ( he would have deserved it ) .
It’s all down to a persons personality.

Not necessarily, no. There are women who are swingers and who are in open relationships/practice ethical non-monogamy, as well as women who cheat. There are also women who are single but have no problem sleeping with married men, which puts the kibosh on the idea that some posters have expressed that women have better sexual morality than men.

agree with pp that it’s most men, 99% probably isn’t far off.

If they are not actively cheating then they are sexting, or thinking about cheating, or desperate to do it if given the opportunity.

And yes, I believe the vast majority would cheat if they were guaranteed to get away with it whereas, like you, I wouldn’t.

It just doesn’t float my boat for a few reasons:

1. It feels a bit grubby
2. sex with a new person / stranger is never going to be good (in my opinion). First time nerves etc, not knowing what they like. It’s going to take a while to get into a rhythm, so why bother when you have that rhythm at home? 3)It taints your marriage and once it’s done can never be undone
3. Genuinely don’t find many men very attractive (I do find my husband very attractive).

The biggest difference between men and women is probably 4. Is it because there are way more attractive women out there than men? I don’t know. But I could hunt around for months for a man I’d want to have sex with and not find anyone. Pretty sure my husband could walk down the street and find 10 good looking women he would shag.

Haven’t read all the replies yet but I’m sure there will be loads from women saying their husbands are not like that and would never behave like that etc.

Until a short while ago my husband had never given me reason to believe he would do anything like that….but I still knew he was capable of it, as he is a man and I know what men are like. Like your husband @Fidgety31he was a “good guy” and somebody everybody liked, a good husband, father and friend etc. But I still knew he was a man and wasn’t naive.

Anyway, a short while ago I found out what he was really up to. Sexting, porn, web cam porn, drug use, planning to meet up with one girl (claimed it didn’t happen).

This was while I was recovering from surgery and a traumatic birth and didn’t feel physically or mentally capable of having sex for, admittedly, a long time.

He has apologised profusely for the sexting and planning to meet the girl. Says he would never have gone though with it. We almost split and he moved in with his mum for a while. We was less apologetic about the porn and claims that every man “looks” and sadly he is probably right.

we are still together becuase he has many good points, I don’t want to break up our family, and he swears he will never ever do it again.

Also though I know that if we split I will either be single forever or end up with someone worse.

Because he’s right. All men do “look” and watch porn and look at random women and fantasyise about having sex with them. And as much as I don’t like it, that’s just the way they are.

Just realised I’ve tagged the wrong poster, I meant to reply to op @Beguiledbeehive