I'm going mad. Maybe

[AnonyMouse33]

Husband went to friends house and got in hot tub and was joined by three women. All above board but I'm upset that it's inappropriate and obviously I wasnt there.
For context, we're a Christian family and this just got to me, as I would never put myself in this position I would be so worried that it would be insensitive and inappropriate. He doesn't agree with me at all, though he's apologised.

Is this unreasonable? He said most people would be totally fine with it?

It's my opinion and I am not asking you or anyone else to agree.

I absolutely believe that when women say they are fine with this sort of behaviour from a man, they are trying really hard to be OK with it, working hard to convince themselves it's all fine, or have become used to this way of thinking because it's 'easier'... Or just genuinely naive. Etc.

I have been there... "the cool girl". It bit me on the backside many, many times.

Ultimately, I no longer see this sort of behaviour to be appropriate from a man in a monogamous relationship or marriage. A rare diamond of a man will not do this.

Well I'm a Christian and I can't see anything wrong with it at all - unless they were naked and I'm assuming they weren't.

You sound like you belong to a rather old fashioned type of Christianity OP. Surely your DH has been in close contact with women in bikinis etc. before? Most men have and I haven't noticed any being overcome with desire because of it. I must inhabit a different world to many of you as I really don't see what the issue is.

I mean surely he has before 🤮🤮🤮

You know in your gut OP that this is disrespectful behaviour and flirtatious. If he owned up and said yeah I was out of order, you’d not dwell but I’m sure the gaslighting is putting your spidey senses up.

what would his reaction be to you going to a party with your mutual friends and acquaintances without him, and you getting in a hot tub with no other women but three men @AnonyMouse33 ?

I am very happily married and would easily get into a hot tub with 3 men (all in swim wear) and I wouldn’t have any problem with DH being in a hot tub with 3 women - for goodness sake, you trust each other or you don’t. If there are others around as well, even less ‘risk’.
the fact you are Christian’s is irrelevant imho.

Swimming pools are public, much larger and less intimate and hot tubs are by comparison very small, limited capacity and jokingly referred to as sex ponds.

And this is why people on this thread should also stop trying to gaslight you.

He knew it was not something you would approve of or be comfortable with. He did it anyway. Now he's trying the "yeah but all my pals say it's ok and you're just repressed!" routine.

And that makes me wonder if he's as reliable and honest as he wants you to believe.

How did you found out he disrespected your shared boundaries?

I'm sorry this has upset you OP. I'm not a Christian so cant comment on that part, but I've seen some really insightful posts here that have helped me understand why in this context it may feel additionally hurtful. From my perspective it would matter what the circumstances were. If it were some of DPs female friends that I've met I wouldn't bat an eye. But if it were women I didn't know i might feel more icky about it. Especially as he was the only guy in the pool. But regardless, it made you feel uncomfortable and it really isn't a tall ask that your husband agrees not to be the only man in a hot tub with women again if thats a boundary you feel strongly about.

Yes, this is key. Unfortunately she will never now know unless she just goes ahead and does that - because if she asks him he will of course lie and say he'd be fine with it, even if he wouldn't.

He's already tried the "you're wrong and a bit bonkers and everyone else agrees with me" routine, so admitting he'd hate it and find it disrespectful would mean he couldn't gaslight her any more.

I feel like sitting in a bowl of human soup (what a hot tub makes me think of), all half naked and staring at each other, is pretty unreasonable to start with 😂 I only want to be in a hot tub with my husband, just for sheer hygiene reasons.

But I don't think you're being unreasonable to have this boundary if you both have quite 'firm' boundaries in the relationship in general, and this fits in with those. If this goes against the sort of behaviour you expect of each other, I can understand feeling hurt or angry, and he should be able to consider how he might feel if your positions were reversed.

However... if you feel you can't trust him to behave faithfully when he sits in a hot tub with women wearing swim togs, you might have a bigger issue at hand. Finding it disrespectful of your boundaries is fair, but worrying he would actually be unfaithful is something else entirely.

assuming you are just an ordinary family, i think "image" is slightly ridiculous. it isn't as if you are a royal family or aristocracy who have to behave a certain way or celebrities who live in fear of being cancelled. with that being said, in your shoes i would be absolutely incandescent, i would find it so disrespectful and outrageous to be in swimwear in a hot tub with 3 members of his (presumably) preferred sex without you. i fail to see how he could be invited to use it without having swimming shorts with him (unless he borrowed a pair from the host of course but only you know if that would be possible, ie would he fit into the hosts clothes) you are very right about it not being right, i would only go in a hot tub with a romantic partner or a very close friend or a family member who i had that sort of closeness with.

@AnonyMouse33
For context, we're a Christian family and this just got to me, as I would never put myself in this position I would be so worried that it would be insensitive and inappropriate. He doesn't agree with me at all, though he's apologised.
Is this unreasonable? He said most people would be totally fine with it?

I am picking out this part of your op. I’m slightly confused as to your wording, so perhaps you could clarify, please? Particularly “…I would be so worried it would insensitive and inappropriate.” Do you mean you do think it’s inappropriate or that it would be seen as such? Ie are you concerned about how your husband’s friends would see it? Or is there something about being a Christian mean you can’t use hot tubs with friends - regardless of gender? Is it the being more undressed you see as being seen to be inappropriate? Christians can use hot tubs, your husband has the autonomy to choose to use a hot tub if he so chooses. If he shares in your Christianity then surely he believes that being a Christian doesn’t mean you have to forego experiences such as this.

you questioned a pp about her statement about being able to trust your husband. Your response surprised me some what. Because instead of instantly saying “well of course I can trust my husband” you asked her how she could possibly know your husband is trustworthy, which actually gives the impression that you perhaps don’t trust him. Which seems to be more of an issue than using the hot tub. If you both believe in Christianity and consider yourself -both you and he - to have a Christian marriage and presumably bringing up any children in a Christian household, then, Shirley, you must know that even within those parameters that there are still going to be differences of opinions, discussions on what may or may not be appropriate and can both have different views in these things. Your husband doesn’t see going in a fried ‘s hot tub as in anyway breaching Christian guidelines! Because is doesn’t.

you seem more concerned that you clearly don’t 100% trust your husband, worried about how it might appear, and basically sort of shocked that he doesn’t hold the exact same opinions on everything as you do. Who are you to say that your ideas of what it is to be Christian are “more right” than his? Which it sort of seems to boil down to. You cannot impose views on him and then denounce him when he’s followed his own choices, clearly not thinking that it makes your Christian marriage any less strong, or that the bible doesn’t have any kind of rule re hot tubs. Take away all of the Christianity noise and what it comes down to is you don’t fully trust your husband and (because?) he got into a friend’s hot tub with women, who are also likely his friends, you find that disrespectful towards you and are a bit pissed that your husband doesn’t hold these same ideas as you and so therefore he must be wrong. And you think it also reflects badly on you, due to what? Judgy people? You also, elsewhere in a different reply to someone, also mentioned “image”. Again this fits with the idea that you’re concerned about what other people think, or that your whole image of being a strong Christian marriage is something you’re more concerned with, rather than the actual marriage itself. If he is also as much committed to a Christian marriage as you are, then you do need to take into account his thoughts about it not a “bad” thing, and you need to talk to him but you need to listen, instead of just telling him it was wrong. It wasn’t a mad sex pond session going on!

Honestly, what exactly is it you are most worried/scared about.

All the above are genuine questions and an attempt to pare down the noise to get at the nuts and bolts.

If you trust him.it wouldn't matter if women stripped off and danced around him with enticing gestures... because you know he would ignore them.

If you don't trust him, it doesn't matter if women are fully clothed and not submerged in warm water.

If he decides to cheat he will cheat. If he doesn't want to he won't.

Only you can decide whether your discomfort with this situation is because you, at heart, don't trust him. Or whether it is because you worry about your Christian community will assume.

Is the issue the optics for other people? Or is it that he might have got a thrill from the other women’s bodies? Or that it was too intimate to be alone with just women, had there been another man there too it would have been ok? Or that you feel a bit jealous that you’d assumed you’d agreed to miss out if certain types of fun if they felt inappropriate but apparently only you miss out, he feels he can do what he wants?

No I wouldn’t be ok with that at all. I would feel very uncomfortable and that it was inappropriate - being on a hot tub with a married man at a party

It’s the optics isn’t it?

I get it. You feel a bit undermined and, rightly or wrongly, humiliated. Like other people will be thinking “oh, look at her husband jumping in the hot tub with the women” and passing judgement on the state of your marriage?

I used to do a lot of sailing - including moving yachts from one place to another, non stop for several days.

On one occasion a potential fellow crew member, Christian, opted out because my presence on the boat was 'too much like spending a night with another woman' than his wife.

We had met twice, no flirtation, certainly no interest on my side in anything except sailing...And on a small yacht with 2 or 3 other crew, doing 4 hours on, 4 hours off, dressed for warmth at all times and in waterproofs when.on deck, no privacy. ..

It was very weird.

Edited to clarify, all the other crew were male. His discomfort was entirely due to me being female and being on the same boat overnight. No problem being on the same boat in the daytime.

The issue is that it does not align with their shared and agreed to boundaries for behaviour, and that he's gaslighting her by pretending he doesn't know that.

At least that's how I read it.

Just wondering, would you take the piss out of other people's religions and mock an upset woman, or is it only Christians who are fair game for verbal abuse?

Definitely don't pretend you were being sincere btw, that would make you look even worse than you currently do - and you currently look deeply unpleasant.

Thanks for the passive aggressive loveheart in response to my serious question.

I guess the answer is no, you are only rude and unpleasant to Christians.

Glad we've cleared that up.

Was it like an LL Cool J MTV music video from the 90s? or middle aged academic laughs, ooh that's soothing my aching back type scenario?

I take it by mentioning Christianity you mean you are more conservative rather than liberal when it comes to relationship values and are assuming that it was more raunchy (reality is, it probably wasn't)

I'm not sure how I'd feel to be honest..I always thought I was quite relaxed - I'd have no issue with my OH using the sauna, hot tub at the gym or swimming on holiday socialising, say but at a party, people drinking, depends on the vibe of the evening I guess..I'd be asking a few more questions before I got p'd off.

If there was a lot of disrespectful flirting going off I'd be P'd off about that with or without a hot tub.

Do you know the other woman? We regularly go away in our friendship group and sometimes there is a hot tub and nobody cares which combination is using it (ie one woman and 3 men, 2 of each but not partners, etc). We are all atheists though so nobody is getting up to anything dodgy in there.

If that was my husband he personally would have been very uncomfortable and actually he wouldn't have gotten in. If your husband was already in there and then 3 woman got in, I would expect him to get out not because he cant be trusted or he isnt thinking inappropriately but more out of respect that you were not there. In my own relationship my husband and I dont ever put ourselves in situations that the other person would have to question the relationship or trust. I would say your husband actually technically didnt do anything wrong and im assuming you only know this has happened because he was honest with you so id say it was all innocent but can very well see your side also.