To be jealous of teacher friend?

[Notheretoday]

Name changed because I know some parents of children I teach are MNetters!

I'm a secondary school teacher. Have been for fifteen years. I love teaching, but the workload is stressing me to the point of feeling physically sick to return to work on Monday.

I'm in a large comprehensive school and have had classes as large at 34 and the stress of marking is taking its toll on me.

Over the past few years I've noticed a dramatic decline in behaviour at my school, as well as an increased animosity, even aggression, from parents. Too often I see excellent teachers crying in the staffroom because of malicious and unfounded accusations made by parents against kind, talented and hard-working people.

AIBU to feel very jealous of my ex-colleague who jumped ship a few years ago from my school and now works at a private boarding school?

She's a lot less stressed and more calm than she was when we worked together and said that she can really focus on teaching rather than behaviour management now. I'm so jealous of this.

I can't remember all the details, but she has:
very small classes
lengthy holidays (four weeks at Christmas, July and Aug off!).
doesn't have to work on Saturdays or after school. All meetings, including parents' meetings, are within the school day
lighter timetable
private health care
free financial advice
so many expensive resources at her fingertips, to use for planning and in lessons
free use of the facilities, including swimming pool and posh gym
better pay and pension
lovely work environment, with lots of perks like free food and tickets to events in the town
crucially - no behaviour issues whatsoever. It's a highly selective school, so all of the kids are very able and determined to do well. I thought they'd be really entitled, but she said they're all very respectful

I've never liked the idea of private education. I went to a state school and my DC are state-educated, but I'm feeling that life is too short to face another twenty years or so of my situation, rather than looking over the fence at working in selective independent schools. I'm so sick of dreading ever day.

AIBU to be jealous, or should I be glad to educate those who don't have the benefit of wealth?

I am in awe of Teachers.i don't honestly know how they do it! My Cousins are Teaching. All I will say is to do what's best for you.Many Secondary schools are difficult. Behaviour and pressure from ever changing govt methods.Believe me just go for it !

Oh come on, no need to be jelly, just get yourself a decent job?!

I think you're twisting the facts to justify what is a very admirable, if misguided, moral position.

Societal inequality will always exist. It is impossible to eradicate it. Even in state education, inequality exists through the grammar school system, and through the fact that all schools admit through catchment areas. Middle class people can effectively create socially unequal schools in areas where property prices within catchment areas make it impossible for people of a lower social class to send their children to their preferred school.

In an ideal world, private schools shouldn't need to exist, just like private healthcare shouldn't need to exist. But while the government I am forced to live under refuses to adequately invest in public services, my moral preferences are not my reality, and I am powerless to change that. Me working in a state school and putting up with feral behaviour, an overwhelming workload and a curriculum that isn't fit for purpose in order to make some kind of moral stand against private schools is going to achieve diddly squat in enabling social inequality, so I'd rather keep my sanity and teach in an environment where I can at least be enabled to do my job properly. I wouldn't judge any colleague who chose to do the same.

I always say to anyone feeling in a moral quandary over teaching in a private school - children are children wherever you are, and all children deserve good teachers.

The children I teach are far more likely to go into positions of influence in society than those in my local comp - whether I like it or not, that is reality, and I can't change that - and so I do my utmost to instil in my students a sense of moral and social responsibility and an awareness of their privilege, so that when they are forming policy or making laws or whatever in the future, they do so with compassion and fairness. I think for my students, having a teacher who is not from the same background as them, and who makes them aware of the world outside of their own privilege, is really vital to helping them become fully rounded adults. I'm sure you'll roll your eyes at that, but I think it's important to recognise that private school teachers do play a part in supporting social equality too - just from a different angle.

Ex-teacher (retired over a decade ago) here: I spent most of my career in state schools (just a few short term contracts in private schools towards the end) BUT if I were starting out again, or if one of my children wanted to teach, I'd tell them to go into the private sector. It's not that it is "easy" - in fact most private schools will demand longer hours on extra-curricular, trips etc, but smaller classes, more resources and supportive parents (mostly) make life a lot less of a battle.

Anyway that's my take on this.

I’ve been there as a secondary school teacher and experienced most of what you’re describing. I do really feel for you and I don’t blame you for feeling jealous.

It’s hard to see a way out but your mental health and well-being is important. Private schools aren’t the only option, there’s further education colleges etc. I left and moved to adult education and it was the best thing i did.

You sound like a good teacher who is using your position to do purposeful work with the students in front of you, which is all any of us can do, I guess 😊
I don’t agree that I’m twisting the facts - or that teaching in the state sector won’t make a difference (for example, my school gets excellent results in a deprived area, students have high aspirations etc - to me that is making a difference as these students may go on to work in positions where they can effect further change etc). However, you articulate the nuances of the situation well - for example house prices in good school catchments, grammar schools (which I also feel uncomfortable about 😆 as parents buy their kids’ way in through tuition) etc. Reflecting on my own life, I l bought a house in an area with good schools - kind of by accident as I was young and not forward-thinking at the time - where many could not afford to buy. So my DC’s relative privilege is securing them a better education, really. All food for thought. Thank you for the interesting conversation and sorry OP for slightly derailing your thread!

In your situation, I would look around for another job.
State or private sector.
As someone with kids, I'd personally prefer you stayed in the state sector!

All teachers should like dc. The fact the parents have money doesn’t make the children horrible. Many private schools make absolutely certain dc going there understand about the less privileged in society here or abroad. The teachers in private schools come from a variety of backgrounds. They are united by teaching.

@Notheretoday Of course you should apply for another job. My DDs boarded and some of the perks you list didn’t ring true for us! Parents evenings were after school. Sports teachers worked on Saturdays. Days were long for some staff. My DDs did 8.30 to 7.30 and that included supervised prep. Lunch was long and many clubs were on offer - run by teachers! Both at lunchtime and evenings. Many didn’t disappear at 3.30pm. They also went on school trips and residentials and were very present at school. Longer holidays but busy days. Yes, behaviour was good and atmosphere.

You will have to be nice to parents! You will have to look fairly smart. Don’t be morally upset though. Your state school should be better run. SLT need to buck up.

Teaching really isn’t what it once was. Good friend of mine (male) accused of inappropriate behaviour and had the police turn up at his home - his wife was heavily pregnant. He was suspended- found that nothing had happened and the girl was a fantasist who had done this before. He was traumatised by the whole experience and has left teaching. He was a fantastic teacher too. The whole experience was that the pupil was automatically believed immediately until proven otherwise. This process took weeks due to the Local Government Safeguarding Officer only working part time.

I agree that your job is a dreadful one now. I honestly couldnt do it.

But your colleague that jumped ship - surely her role.could be under threat as so many private schools are closing following the VAT change?

Not made up but exaggerated and amplified by the (largely right wing, non-dom owned) ) press. Many of said private schools were failing financially anyway.

Stop being green with envy & start looking to see if you can get on the ladder at a private school my friends wife works at one. & she loves it says it’s amazing do it if you don’t you’ll always be thinking what if

@NotheretodayHow can you possibly work with dc of parents who are paying the Vat, and possibly struggling to do do, and you cheered about this? No, you stay where you are! How awful to think that you want them to pay your wages whilst you don’t respect them!

Do it! You have answered your own question here! I’m guessing you just need a few of us to tell you to do it! Apply and apply and apply again. Look at what ever extra you need to do, extra courses and anything that mars you above the “state school” average. Better yourself to work smarter not harder. If Covid taught us anything life is short do what’s best for you no regrets!

I have a friend and a cousin who are teachers in private selective schools. They both say they wouldn’t go back to teaching in a state school. They love teaching smaller class sizes and that most of the parents are really engaged with their children’s learning.

Don't be jealous, but look for a job in a school like your friend teaches at instead.

While I completely agree with your point that most behavioural issues start at home, and there is a lot of awful parenting contributing to very challenging behavioural issues in schools, which leads to children not being taught even the most basic manners, with little understanding that sometimes the school class or group dynamic is more important than one individual in a school context, with parents completing failing to see why their “special” kid isn’t an exception to every rule, there is also a terrible problem with under-funding in the state sector which can’t just be ignored!

Lack of basic man power and having sufficient teachers to provide basic cover is one issue which causes large class sizes and a lot of stress for teachers and pupils alike.

And when a school is not selective, it has to deal with a whole range of issues, most of which can be handled if resources are adequate.

So in answer to your questions op, I don’t think you should feel guilty for going against your own principles because the state sector is so underfunded that it is requiring a ridiculous level of commitment from teachers who work in it, which eventually takes its toll and becomes unsustainable.

My mum was a teacher in state primary schools her entire life. It is bloody hard work for little reward. That said, she has a very solid defined benefit pension in retirement, the likes of which private sector employees could only dream of.

If you’d like the better lifestyle of a private school teacher, you could apply for a job in one?

Retired teacher here. I worked in several different schools- rough inner city comps, good comps in leafy suburbs, girls grammar and finished my career as HoD in a prestigious independent school. The conditions and resources in the private school were so superior to any I had experienced before. Beautiful grounds, swimming pool, free lunches, small classes, plenty of free periods, longer holidays , better pay …I could go on. I was made to feel valued and respected. My advice would be to look for positions in the independent sector, but make sure it is a member of HMC, is selective and has a first class reputation. Some of the smaller, less prestigious institutions as others have pointed out will not offer the same conditions.

You presume much. In any case, I'm all for the VAT charge and it hasn't put off many. If mediocre youngsters have better opportunities by means of extensive confidence and network building and handheld, spoon-fed education their privileged families rightly pay vat for this commodity. It's petty cash for many consumers of private education.

@StellaAmy wow what a spiteful post. I personally know about a dozen who have left my school due to the charge and over the coming years there'll be more who wont continue who would have, leaving friends and familiar environments. I know kids who are not "mediocre", whatever that means, but have needs unmet in state and who can thrive in a private setting but you'd rather cut off that opportunity or make it even harder to attain? Until you can show me one, specific state sector improvement as a direct result of this policy, that outweighs those harms, and isn't just a vague ideological rant, I'll continue to oppose it.

Hi OP. The advice to get some guidance from a lifestyle coach/counsellor was interesting and may lead to a ‘positive reframing’ of your current situation, to inform future decisions. Sometimes we take onboard the struggles of our colleagues, when actually we could choose not to - as a person in a caring profession, I know this will be alien to you. Also when we are overwhelmed we can focus on the negative rather than the positive. My career in SEN has evolved year on year and I have loved the flexibility and variety - you can’t teach the same thing twice without adaptations and that’s where the joy lies. Please take time to focus on YOUR strengths, qualities and goals and remember you are doing an incredible job. You will take these to any new role. I have moved schools and it’s challenging starting again, but the rewards are worth it. I am not dreading tomorrow but have been in SEN schools where poor leadership was can’t even describe how it made me and my colleagues feel x

I’ve worked in a fabulous state school and an appalling private school, so it’s swings and roundabouts.

But honestly, perhaps stop being so judgmental about private education. The fact that we are lucky enough to live at a point in history when the state provides all children with access to free education doesn’t mean that what’s on offer locally suits your child. If you can scrape the money together to find somewhere that does, then it’s natural to want to do that. I’d rather parents do whatever is within their means to help their children thrive.

We don’t insist on everyone eating state-determined food and living in state owned housing. we don’t say all children must only do extracurricular activities provided by the state. We all know that mandating such things would be bad for society. It’s the same with education. We do well as a country when people spend disposable income here and not overseas. It’s time to stop demonising the provision of high quality education in the private sector.

What a spiteful post.

Children don't get to choose where their parents send them to school.

Private schools do not offer 'spoon fed' education. Precisely the opposite, in fact.

State schools - particularly academy chains - are exam factories these days, focused on rote-learning and teaching by powerpoint. I have colleagues working in academy chains where Head Office makes the schemes of work and lesson-by-lesson powerpoint slides for each subject and these get sent out to schools in the chains with strict instructions for the teachers not to deviate from what has been mandated from on high. Many schools now have a three year GCSE course (Y9 - Y11) with students being taught and re-taught the same content over those three years, limiting the knowledge they are given access to, to ensure they pass their exams and the school can maintain its position in the league tables. Children are not being taught to think, create, collaborate - they're being taught to pass exams. Is it any wonder that many parents want an alternative to this shit show?

State schools' failures are not the fault of private schools. Pretending they are is a convenient way to dodge dealing with the real issues at play.

Parents sending their children to private schools still pay their taxes towards state education, and don't use the services - so they're paying twice already. If only the government were filtering that excess money towards improving state school education, but they're not. And blaming 'the privileged' and their 'mediocre' children (what a nasty thing to say) for successive governments' failures to invest properly in young people is a very easy way for society to dodge responsibility for a lack of interest in what really goes on in our schools, and a lack of collective action to do anything about it. The teachers' unions have been campaigning and protesting for years about all of these issues - academy chains, the growing popularity of draconian behavioural management systems, ever decreasing budgets, crumbling school buildings - but when we do, and when we go on strike, the public just tear teachers down and declare them to be moaning shysters who are perpetually on holiday, and who need to shut up or get out into the 'real world' - as if a school isn't part of the real world - meaning that nothing changes and so more parents feel forced to put their hands in their pockets to find an alternative.

@EnidSpyton I remember reading Ofsted didn’t like GCSE teaching over 3 years. I’m assuming that’s not the case any more. I agree it’s boring and very narrow.

@Elektra1Im in awe of what primary school teachers do. However all the ones I know have had more time with their dc than other parents get and certainly save on childcare in the holidays! The pension is still better than many others, so it’s jam tomorrow and working past 60 seems unusual too. Plus part time working is readily available. Plenty of schools are great places to work and are well run.

Private schools don’t all offer huge advantages to staff over state schools. I’ve certainly seen poor teaching in them that’s not been improved by CPD or any monitoring. Parents can also be very demanding. Paying customers alters the dynamic. As a private school, would I want to employ someone who didn’t support our whole business model and reason for existence? Not sure I would.

I would agree your friend has on an excellent job and would certainly be better than what you are struggling with at the moment. I would say though not all private education facilities are the same and some will have longer hours, plus similar issues with behaviour etc as you have now. All you can do is look around see what is available and then decide to go for an interview or not