To be jealous of teacher friend?

[Notheretoday]

Name changed because I know some parents of children I teach are MNetters!

I'm a secondary school teacher. Have been for fifteen years. I love teaching, but the workload is stressing me to the point of feeling physically sick to return to work on Monday.

I'm in a large comprehensive school and have had classes as large at 34 and the stress of marking is taking its toll on me.

Over the past few years I've noticed a dramatic decline in behaviour at my school, as well as an increased animosity, even aggression, from parents. Too often I see excellent teachers crying in the staffroom because of malicious and unfounded accusations made by parents against kind, talented and hard-working people.

AIBU to feel very jealous of my ex-colleague who jumped ship a few years ago from my school and now works at a private boarding school?

She's a lot less stressed and more calm than she was when we worked together and said that she can really focus on teaching rather than behaviour management now. I'm so jealous of this.

I can't remember all the details, but she has:
very small classes
lengthy holidays (four weeks at Christmas, July and Aug off!).
doesn't have to work on Saturdays or after school. All meetings, including parents' meetings, are within the school day
lighter timetable
private health care
free financial advice
so many expensive resources at her fingertips, to use for planning and in lessons
free use of the facilities, including swimming pool and posh gym
better pay and pension
lovely work environment, with lots of perks like free food and tickets to events in the town
crucially - no behaviour issues whatsoever. It's a highly selective school, so all of the kids are very able and determined to do well. I thought they'd be really entitled, but she said they're all very respectful

I've never liked the idea of private education. I went to a state school and my DC are state-educated, but I'm feeling that life is too short to face another twenty years or so of my situation, rather than looking over the fence at working in selective independent schools. I'm so sick of dreading ever day.

AIBU to be jealous, or should I be glad to educate those who don't have the benefit of wealth?

I've just looked on my friend's school website and there are no teaching jobs available at the moment.

Really wish I'd applied for it when she did! Although, of course, I'm very pleased for her. She is lovely and was a bloody good teacher.

I really don't think there is much of a downside to her school. They have TPS, teachers definitely don't work on Saturdays or after school and she doesn't seem to have much contact from parents at all. I think about 85% are boarders, many of whom are East Asian.

The things I would miss about state are:
Mixed sex
Helping refugee children
Working with travellers
Thinking about SEND kids (apart from mild dyslexia and some autistic needs, my friend said that she doesn't need to consider any special needs)

and that's it, I suppose.

She said that she rarely has to work at home because she has so many frees during the week.

Yes, I can't help being jealous. She's off until 12th Jan too. I would have loved a 4 week break.

Day schools are half that. And they can get rid of kids that can't or won't behave. They do, because if they don't and four other parents pull their kids out as a result, it's worse. I've taught in both and there are huge variations across both sectors. Mine pays below state and is no longer in the TPS.I do work a longer day but am not remotely stressed, anxious or overstretched. Term time is busy yes but productive and longer holidays and smaller classes means less marking and more time to unwind.

My friend teaches in a state school in Ireland. His current job is good, but in a previous school the children (and their parents) were like wild animals.

From your own description of your own school, you must understand why some parents need to move their Sen kids to private schools - children with autism etc can’t cope in large classrooms with lots of kids with deregulated behaviour and start refusing to attend school. All private schools are not equal - our Sen daughters local private had in theory inferior teaching and grounds etc to our son’s local free gov high school - but she coped better in the smaller class sizes and was able to stay in school until the end of sixth form.

The rest of Europe do not pay vat on education for a reason and the uk vat on private schools has desecrated the sector.

You have mentioned in your opinion the parents should pay vat - it’s worrying that as a teacher you have not acknowledged the kids in the system who have had to leave education they were settled into because their parents could no longer afford it.

A teacher who is ideologically opposed to private schools and supports the vat, has no business working in the private school sector. If you ever get as fair as an interview at a private school, I hope they ask your opinion on private schools and the vat.

It says a lot about your moral compass, if you are anti private schools but are considering going to work there for the improved work conditions.

Where is this fabulous boarding school where teachers don't have to work on Saturdays and the teachers still keep their TPS?

It's about parental attitudes. And it seems to be a particular problem in the UK. Teaching is still rewarding in other countries, where teachers continue to be respected and to have the support of parents. In China a teacher can have 70 or 80 children in their class, but there are no significant discipline problems.

It seems that you think parents with more money have better attitudes towards teachers. This isn’t necessarily the case. I’ve worked in a private school and a state school. The parents in the private school were as bad, they were just better at hiding it.

In china if a child doesn’t grasp something a teacher teaches then it is on THEM to study to grasp it - the teacher will plough on regardless !

Why dont you look for a job at a SEN school?

You can’t have it both ways and complain about what teachers get in a different system but then say you won’t work in that system. Either accept it’s different or get a similar job.

I don't think that exclusively SEND would be easier than mainstream. If anything it would be much harder, I imagine.

Also, I love my subject and would really like to teach very capable and engaged students. Really stretch and challenge them and talk about my subject. A good grammar school would be a reasonable alternative to what I currently have.

Haven’t RTFT but I moved from state to private 9 years ago. Prep rather than secondary. All independents are different. I had:

very small classes - yes, max 16. Some in the school under 10.
lengthy holidays (four weeks at Christmas, July and Aug off!). - not quite this long but about 3-4 weeks more than state schools
doesn't have to work on Saturdays or after school. - no Saturdays, though many independents do
All meetings, including parents' meetings, are within the school day - no
lighter timetable - yes
private health care - no
free financial advice - no
so many expensive resources at her fingertips, to use for planning and in lessons - yes
free use of the facilities, including swimming pool and posh gym - no facilities like this at my school
better pay and pension - no. Left the TPS in 2020. Pay barely went up (2-4% per year, no move on pay scale) in 7 years. I started in equivalent of UPS1, which was worth about m2 when I left.
lovely work environment, - yes mostly
with lots of perks like free food and tickets to events in the town - no
crucially - no behaviour issues whatsoever. It's a highly selective school, so all of the kids are very able and determined to do well. I thought they'd be really entitled, but she said they're all very respectful - yes

But, the school closed last year due to low pupil numbers.

Id say expect worse pay and pension than state and at least some Saturdays to be the norm in most independents. But for me it was better in most ways until I left teaching completely. I left due to boredom and wanting to do something else rather than stress though.

I was going to suggest moving to a grammar school if they exist in your area. A family member of mine is a secondary teacher and was very disillusioned with the decline in student behaviour and as a last ditch attempt to stay with teaching moved to a girls’ grammar to see if that improved matters. He actually enjoys teaching again now and it has definitely improved his mental wellbeing.

I would agree that SEN schools are not easier. My amazing DIL is a teacher in a SEN school and loves it but has had time off for stress and she’s physically assaulted very, very regularly. There’s also a very high staff turnover and that’s not unusual in SEN schools.

I hope you find what you’re looking for. I stepped away from primary teaching three years ago and now work in a different sector. I miss all that comes with having your own class but the improvement in my work- life balance has been transformative.

The state sector is really getting a bashing here. There are great schools out there even in the state sector. My school (inner city) is part of one of “those academy chains” that also get a bashing on here for being too strict - virtually zero behaviour issues though!

Just FYI your friends in private schools wouldn't be allowed to tell you anything other than a well-polished and glowing version of events. Every interaction with anyone is a "touch point". Our whole lives revolve around marketing.

I was going to suggest moving to a grammar school if they exist in your area. A family member of mine is a secondary teacher and was very disillusioned with the decline in student behaviour and as a last ditch attempt to stay with teaching moved to a girls’ grammar to see if that improved matters. He actually enjoys teaching again now and it has definitely improved his mental wellbeing.
I would agree that SEN schools are not easier. My amazing DIL is a teacher in a SEN school and loves it but has had time off for stress and she’s physically assaulted very, very regularly. There’s also a very high staff turnover and that’s not unusual in SEN schools.
I hope you find what you’re looking for. I stepped away from primary teaching three years ago and now work in a different sector. I miss all that comes with having your own class but the improvement in my work- life balance has been transformative.

My sister has been a teacher for 28 years and currently Head of Sixth Form at a Girls Grammar School. She says behavior even there is similarly to that of good Comprehensive about 15 years ago !

@EnidSpyton I’m a new-ish teacher but worked for many years in another sector where I looked at societal issues. Please don’t asssume I’m naive due to inexperience. Private schools are at best symptomatic of a huge societal divide/unfairness, whatever the root causes. In my opinion.

This is your take. I’ve been teaching over 25 years and don’t feel like this regarding private schools. While I agree with many of your points regarding lack of funding in the state sector. Private schools exist mainly to perpetuate inequalities society and if you deny that you’re not paying attention.

@thedramaQueen

Of course private schools do perpetuate inequality, and I am very aware of that. But I don't agree that they exist to perpetuate inequality; I think that's a far too simplistic way of looking at a very complex problem.

Private schools largely exist because of state schools' failures.

If state schools offered the same standard of education as private schools, they wouldn't need to exist.

The fact that state schools don't offer this, isn't the fault of private schools or of the children who attend them.

People who send their children to private schools pay just as much tax towards state education as everyone else. As do those of us who work in them.

There is plenty of money washing around for the government to invest into state schools to make them more like private schools. The fact that the government would rather spend over a billion pounds on a train line to nowhere rather than on making teaching a more attractive profession and building new schools is why so many parents have had to choose to opt out of the state system.

I voted Yabu as you can do the same, as your former colleague.

I don't really get why your posting.

Some people would always want to send their children to private regardless of how good state schools were . This is why I do believe that they on the whole exist to perpetuate inequality (with the exception of SEND private schools - but there is a whole other issue). It's the old school network that is definitely still in operation in many jobs and careers, particularly in the city, that attracts many parents when they are thinking of giving their children the best opportunities through what school they send them too etc. Of course, some supporters of private schools would strongly deny this.

I do agree with you on money and investment into state schools, someone with a cynical view might suggest that this money is being kept from state schools in order to maintain the status quo in the education system.. there was enough of an outcry with the introduction of VAT on private schools fees, which we all know was symbolic rather than providing any real money for the state sector. I imagine that more of a fuss might be made if actual money was put into the state sector to level it up with the private sector. (I would bet there are many private companies benefiting from the billions invested into that train line you mention who would object to that being cancelled in favour of the money going to schools!)

Private schools in fact existed before state schools, when education was the preserve of a privileged few - they’re not a product of a failing state system, but the cornerstone of the unequal two tier system. Universal education was introduced relatively recently to tackle social inequality, yet those with power and privilege continued/continue to send their children to private school. If the private system didn’t exist, you could argue that investment in state education would become a priority.

I see that you work in a private school, so of course you believe the private school system is morally justified. To return to the OP’s original question - if they don’t believe the private school system is morally justified, then I would not recommend they compromise their morals to work in one, regardless of perks.

Lots of the parents at the private I teach at would very much like NOT to be paying 20k a year but are doing so because the state offering locally is poor, mostly due to the wider demographic, not a reflection on the schools themselves. People talk about "avoiding oiks" like it's a bad thing but if you phrase it as "removing my child from an atmosphere of disruption and / or violence" it becomes harder to argue with as a parental goal. I would have loved to have saved myself 5 years of fees and two remortages if there was a free school available that met my DCs needs. The pp is right that any government who actually wants to dismantle private education should do it by removing the need for them.

I worked in one while being ideologically opposed to them in principle. Unfortunately the state sector is what it is and I felt unable to continue teaching in it, so it was throw my morals out the window or quit teaching. In the end I did quit but I managed 6 more years in my profession and felt it was a choice to leave then rather than a necessity.

I wonder if people object to private health insurance on moral grounds too? Ideally the NHS would function properly, but it doesn’t. I wonder how many people choose not to have private health insurance when they could afford it as a point of principle?

If posters on this thread want less Private Schools, then introduce what parents want more off : Grammar Schools . However, the Labour Party have come up with a more egalitarian way apparently by introducing VAT. Simple, in that it reduces the number of Private School Children, without having to compromise the Comprehensive Schooling System ! 'Brilliant ' I wish I thought have doing that, rather than enacting the type of schools that parents want and not what ideologues or the NEC want.