To be jealous of teacher friend?

[Notheretoday]

Name changed because I know some parents of children I teach are MNetters!

I'm a secondary school teacher. Have been for fifteen years. I love teaching, but the workload is stressing me to the point of feeling physically sick to return to work on Monday.

I'm in a large comprehensive school and have had classes as large at 34 and the stress of marking is taking its toll on me.

Over the past few years I've noticed a dramatic decline in behaviour at my school, as well as an increased animosity, even aggression, from parents. Too often I see excellent teachers crying in the staffroom because of malicious and unfounded accusations made by parents against kind, talented and hard-working people.

AIBU to feel very jealous of my ex-colleague who jumped ship a few years ago from my school and now works at a private boarding school?

She's a lot less stressed and more calm than she was when we worked together and said that she can really focus on teaching rather than behaviour management now. I'm so jealous of this.

I can't remember all the details, but she has:
very small classes
lengthy holidays (four weeks at Christmas, July and Aug off!).
doesn't have to work on Saturdays or after school. All meetings, including parents' meetings, are within the school day
lighter timetable
private health care
free financial advice
so many expensive resources at her fingertips, to use for planning and in lessons
free use of the facilities, including swimming pool and posh gym
better pay and pension
lovely work environment, with lots of perks like free food and tickets to events in the town
crucially - no behaviour issues whatsoever. It's a highly selective school, so all of the kids are very able and determined to do well. I thought they'd be really entitled, but she said they're all very respectful

I've never liked the idea of private education. I went to a state school and my DC are state-educated, but I'm feeling that life is too short to face another twenty years or so of my situation, rather than looking over the fence at working in selective independent schools. I'm so sick of dreading ever day.

AIBU to be jealous, or should I be glad to educate those who don't have the benefit of wealth?

Why do you say that? I'm not challenging you; I'm genuinely interested.

Massive class sizes, awful behaviour, and a lot of kids with SEN who aren't bad enough to be in special education mixed in with neurotypical kids, to everyone's detriment.

I’m also a secondary teacher and I would say stick to your principles re private education. For me, the ethical trade off of being part of an unfair (imo) system would outweigh any perks. The disadvantage gap in education - and beyond - is at the root of so many injustices in our society, as I am sure you see in your working life. I want to know that I am countering that, not exacerbating it (again, imo 😆) - it’s a huge motivation behind my choice of career, and I would lose my vocation without that motivation.
I know this will be unpopular with many posters who send their kids to private school - but if your beliefs are opposed to private school, you may find you can’t be happy working in one.

However, there are state schools with excellent behaviour systems and good behaviour. I work in one of them, in a massively deprived area. If I were you I would spend the next few months researching such schools in your area, and aiming to apply for new jobs. Good luck!

@UneAnneeSansLumiere Thank you. What's your experience? Are you teacher, parent, both? Again, genuinely interested. I'm a retired secondary school maths teacher.

I'm neither, but I have friends who are both and I have heard horror stories, plus better stories from my friends who teach in independent schools.

YANBU. I’m close friends which an English secondary school teacher. She taught for years in the state sector, really believed in it being someone who came from a less well off background herself and was the first to go to university in her family. However, she is now far happier teaching children who actually want to learn and know how to behave in the private sector. She also says she is no longer micro-managed and is trusted to plan and teach more creatively again. Good for her!

I think your friend is perhaps laying it on a bit thick about the upsides of private education. Yes you will have smaller classes, but you will absolutely have behaviour issues and they will very likely not have the kind of parental support you might expect. I’ve seen private parents in action when their kids are pulled up and it ain’t always pretty. They also aren’t afraid of throwing their weight and threatening to pull multiple kids.

I may also be generalising, but Privates aren’t necessarily bound to pay into TPS as there’s a lot of oncost saving to be found there.

Parental expectations on results are huge. No such thing as not being able to polish a turd when it comes to folk that are paying £40k minimum.

I wouldn't sacrifice my happiness to stay in any job if a better alternative existed, but then again, I wouldn't see any ethical dilemma in choosing to teach at a private school. Not so sure about the boarding aspect, though. I know some people have no problem with them, but I'd personally have more qualms about that than whether or not a school is private.

YANBU. I'm somewhere in between. I teach in a lovely girls' grammar school with very few behaviour issues. However, although it's great compared with all the other state secondaries I've worked in, the workload is still brutal and we very much have full-sized classes.

Years ago I used to work in a private girls' day school. Now that's living the dream! Impeccable behaviour, smaller class sizes, amazing facilities, free lunch, tea and sandwiches in the staffroom at the end of the day, longer holidays, but no super-long days or late duties (which you get at most boarding schools)!

Because it's in the grip of ideologically misguided politicians.

I live in a council area with a range of average-to-excellent primaries, but piss-poor secondaries of national renown. The council (Labour dominated - when I first moved here there were 59 Labour councillors out of 60 seats) is quite happy with this. You can tell, because when an academy trust from out of area wanted to open a free school - outside of direct council control - the council announced it would mount a legal challenge to stop it. These people would rather have everyone in shit schools together than some in a good one.

I'd move if I were you!
Sounds like a no brainer!

You aren’t being unreasonable to consider switching despite your personal beliefs on state vs private. Your health and wellbeing matter, and have a knock on effect on your family’s wellbeing too, and you do not have to stay on the crumbling coal face of education for your whole career.

I think you know this already, but your friend’s experience is not necessarily typical. I have worked in both sectors and my last job, in a well known private boarding school, was on balance the most stressful teaching job I had.

Behaviour was difficult in other ways. Family expectations were significant, and the assumption was that we would be available by email out of hours, replying late at night and early in the morning. Hours were long, with evening and Saturday duties, and parents’ evenings were on a Sunday meaning runs of thirteen days in a row were not uncommon. There was a supplement for the Saturdays and evenings, but base pay wasn’t much more at all (though went further what with not having to buy one’s own paper, gluesticks etc!) Salary was not mentioned until after the verbal job acceptance stage.

However, there was excellent SEND support, and a high proportion of children on full bursaries (this may have changed since the VAT rules). There was more job satisfaction in terms of the teaching than I’d envisaged (I liked my previous state school and would have stayed despite significant stress there, but my department was closed down.)

I would suggest you look into other options - both state, including middle schools and alternative provisions, and private - but be sure to talk to current teachers anywhere you’re considering. And (just in case, though it doesn’t sound like you would anyway) I would advise you not to be tempted to move your children to your private school if they offer a significant fee reduction, because then if your children love it you are going to be under the school’s thumb and not in a strong position to negotiate your role and duties.

Another issue to consider is whether you definitely want to stay in teaching. If you get a better paid job outside teaching, you may find you can afford to use your statutory unpaid parental leave entitlement to get holidays not far off what you have now. Just a thought.

Good luck. I hope you have managed to have a break over Christmas and that Monday is not as bad as you fear, when it comes around.

I'd love to know where! What can you tell me without revealing more than you want? Big city, I'm guessing - and I'd also wager outside London, but I could be wrong.

I doff my cap to you, honestly I do. I'm amazed why anybody would want to go in to teaching in this era. Little support, violence/workload and politics.
We parents and our children need and appreciate you.
Thanks

Move schools. Your sounds awful. Which ever side of the fence you’re on you have to water the grass, but if behaviour is like it is at your place, look for a better school! What subject do you teach? Some are very in demand.

It sounds like your friend has found one very unique school!

I do visiting work in private day and boarding schools. There is nothing you could pay me to work at the boarding schools! Your friend is the only boarding school employee I’ve ever heard of not working Saturdays. Often when I’m leaving at 5pm, the boarding school teachers (as in class teaching 8-4) have another 3-5 hours to go with extra curricular and prep supervision.

They definitely have it easier on behaviour, though even at the day schools the extra curricular commitments are wild! Teachers in private also live at the whims of parents, like has happened to your friend, but remember the parents are paying so are therefore the customers who are always right and what you have described is actually a common occurrence.

edit to add: with VAT, you will see private schools will become less selective by necessity. What will it be like having children with higher needs and who are less academically able in settings that haven’t had to cater to them before?

Ex bro in law worked in a prep school in London - issues he experienced -
Kids’ behaviour tricky in other ways (daddy is giving me a job in his business so I don’t need to bother with education )
Parents pay teacher’s wages therefore at their mercy
Pay-scale was different / as was pension
He teaches abroad now !
Grass isnt always greener
Is the demand still strong for private schools ?(VAT changes )
Is another state school an option ? They vary considerably !

I used to be like you. I am taking a guess that your username stands for Early Career Teacher 2022, and that you haven't been teaching for that long.

The longer you teach, the more you realise that the reason we have inequality and a disadvantage gap is not because private schools exist, but because successive governments do not want to invest in adequate state education, and because a huge number of people in this country see education as a waste of time and teachers as people not worthy of any respect.

Private schools exist because of society's collective failure to prioritise education. If the government invested as much money per pupil into education as the private sector does, we wouldn't need private schools.

The money exists. Millions and billions of pounds are pissed up the wall every year by successive governments on vanity projects like HS2 and Boris Johnson's fucking garden bridge. No one actually wants to spend real, proper money on education to make the fundamental changes required to make our system fit for the 21st century. They just want quick fixes and sound bites and tax those nasty rich people who dare to want better for their kids and blame them for how shit it is rather than doing the work required to bring about the systemic changes that are needed.

Better state education - consisting of smaller schools, with smaller year groups, smaller class sizes, larger teacher to pupil ratios and a wider variety of qualification routes so you're not trying to marshall students with no interest or ability through GCSEs they can't access - would solve a lot of the behavioural problems we currently see in schools. Lots of young people don't see the point in education because it doesn't interest them and it has no practical outcome for them - this is why we need more technical qualifications and more apprenticeships. We also need smaller, more community-feeling schools so that children can be truly seen and known by their teachers and given proper pastoral support. Shoving 2000 kids into a factory every day to follow the exact same pathway regardless of ability and interest is never going to lead to a truly good outcome for anyone. Our schooling system is built on a set of Victorian ideals that serve no purpose in the real world in which we live and until that is addressed, everything else is just rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

You can carry on working within a fundamentally broken system and kid yourself you're making a difference while doing so, but you may find in a few years' time, you've broken yourself in the process.

A friend has left a long career as a primary teacher to take up a post teaching English in prisons and loves it. A fraction of the hassle with students (who are mostly well behaved, respectful and motivated), no anxious/aggressive parents, good leadership, excellent workload balance, no evening or weekend work, time given in the working week for prep and admin. She'd never go back to a school.

I was a teacher in a comprehensive school and I felt the same about private schools. I knew someone who taught in one and she definitely had an easier job in some ways, but I would never have been able to bring myself to teach in one. I suspect the parents might be more demanding and I just wouldn't be comfortable in that sort of environment.

Teaching in state maintained schools is hard work and stressful but the management can make a huge difference to staff morale and student behaviour. You could look round for another job without moving into private education.

YANBU. I’m also a teacher and dreading going back on Monday too. I think parents would be shocked at the reality of what goes in schools (swearing at staff, trashing classrooms, defiance, violence etc). And I work in a “good” primary school!

I will say though, not every private school is equal. Quite a few of them actually pay less than state and have worse pension schemes (not TPS).

Correct on both counts. Large urban conburbation in north western England.

We went down the private school route because the state couldn’t offer my elder son an education for several years (complex SEN). We live in a 3 bed semi on a main road in a low income area of the country. I am very well aware that we are vastly better off than many other people, but I’m just making the point that not everyone in every private school has a huge income and lives in a mansion. There are a lot of students in private schools who have SEN and who are there because they couldn’t cope in state. The VAT increase certainly wasn’t easy for us - my mum and the school both helped. (I expect someone will pop up with “you won’t get any sympathy from me when you chose to go private” etc etc - but please bear in mind that state wasn’t an option for us. Oh and I’m not remotely asking for sympathy, I’m just explaining our situation.)

personally, I don't think you should move to a sector (independent) which you appear to dislike/disagree with so much. The issues you highlight, behaviour etc, are sadly quite wide spread. Despite the government's promise to recruit more teachers, teachers in state schools continue to leave the profession in droves due to behaviour and workload. I work in state schools and it breaks my heart to see teachers (and heads) at breaking point. As parents we need to take responsibility for the behaviour of our children, not automatically side with them when something goes wrong, not thinking that teachers come to school in the morning with the deliberate aim to antagonise our children, or have unlimited time to deal with low level issues and complaints. Something is wrong when children can tell teachers to F*k off and not suffer any consequence. As for me, I would rather pay twice (independent as a parent and state education as a tax payer), go on fewer holidays, buy less, keep my small house than have my children think that telling a teacher to f*k off is acceptable behaviour. People are - and should be - free to choose what they feel is best for their children/their lifestyle. Private schools are not the issue, the bad guy. The issue is how we bring up our children.