I hate my children together

[acrosstheyard]

Having more than one is honestly feeling like the worst mistake I’ve made and I think it’s making me quite depressed.

Life is so hard and shit and I look at people with one child all the time and feel so jealous. I love them both so much but I hate parenting them both. If we try to go somewhere it’s ruined because of one of them. I often just think to myself how amazing it would be to just have one; the freedom of things we could do; places we could go. All the ties and limits and restrictions lifted.

Thought it would get better but it hasn’t and now believe it won’t.

My exact point again about all the conflicting advice. You can bet your life that if you post saying you're frequently having disagreement with a toddler, someone will say pick your battles. Yet poor OP comes on saying she's doing exactly that and she's castigated for it!
I know I definitely have to pick my battles. I have chosen to be strict over sitting at the table eating, at no violence to each other, at wearing your coat, about getting in the car seat, about turning off TV when I say. So if I decide to let refusal to wear mittens slide or carry little one instead of having to sit on the pavement for 30 mins whilst she tantrums about walking, that's ok. I am 100% with having boundaries. But for some things, it's not a fight that's important to me and none of us can spend literally all day listening to screaming.

Sertraline. It won’t change your situation but it’ll make you care less about it

@acrosstheyard yes it’s incredibly hard and you do sound wrung out.

Do you get any time to yourself to decompress? You need it, we all do.

It may well be worth asking your HV for tips on improving the situation, it’s definitely not unique.

I hesitate to tell you what really helped me as you have been quite cross sounding with some of your replies but here’s what helped me: I decided to start every day with a positive approach. Tons of praise and jolly challenges, lots and lots of deep breathing when it was hard but I swear to you everything turned around. We were all happier and more harmonious. Dont underestimate what having a tense and angry parent does to the children’s behaviour. Completely a vicious circle that only you have the power to break. It’s worth considering if nothing else is helping.

Best wishes. Oh and they do change and it does get better.

You’re getting a hard time on this thread, people must have the new year grumps.

op it’s hard, having two is hard, I have one but used to nanny multiples and I didn’t love it so may not have a second tbh.

https://www.instagram.com/abanaturally?igsh=MWR2NTFjeWI1czdkaA==

if you’re interested I find this page on Instagram helpful for navigating tricky behaviour in a no nonsense way way

This is so true!!!

They’re 2 and 5, they’re at COMPLETELY different developmental stages and that’s why it’s so hard. They have unique personalities which will impact on their ability to cope with the frustrations of their own developmental stage (most toddlers are difficult!) but also those of their sibling.

There are 2 years and 3 months between my two boys. Same sex and smaller age gap made my situation easier maybe. The eldest has a very easy going personality but the youngest was a full on nightmare till he started school really.

so I had the usual going rigid into buggies and high chair thing with him, usual toddler tantrums, he used to hang off my hand and go limp when he was frustrated at being told to go somewhere he didn’t want to go, or leave somewhere he wanted to stay. It was awful and it aged me, quite honestly. My eldest would just wait patiently till he stopped, bless him, or ask why he was doing that. I had to learn very hard to stay calm and also explain to DS1 why he was behaving that way, but not in a blaming sort of way or saying in frustration “I don’t know, he just is, he’s an absolute pain” type of way.

I made sure to mask my real frustration to his older brother, I tried to just laugh about it with him and say “what’s he like, eh?” with a chuckle or “I think he’s just tired and frustrated” etc because I felt it was important that HE didn’t start believing his brother was a nuisance or stopped him doing things, or got on his nerves etc

i praised DS1’s patience with his brother so much. And then as DS2 got older and saw me praising his big brother for being patient or not getting frustrated at situations then I think it helped HIM see how to behave.

i praised them both for playing nicely with each other, “you’re such a lovely big brother, DS1” and “ aren’t you so lucky having someone to play with who likes trains the same as you do, DS2?”

We modelled supporting each other eg if someone scored a goal when we had a little family kick about then we all would say “fantastic goal/save/pass, DS” to whichever child it was (or me or DH!)

Checked if someone was ok if they looked hurt or upset or something, more praise if one of them took it upon themselves to check the other one was ok and not injured for example.

Just constantly noticing the support that one had for the other, and praising it. If one of them achieved something good at school/hobby/riding bike etc then we all cheered them on and said we were proud of them.

so lots of positive reinforcement of good behaviour towards each other. Never favoured one over the other. Lots of turn taking with things , even setting timer if necessary. NEVER comparing personalities in a detrimental way aloud.

a lot of it was basically just accepting that they are quite different characters. You learn to appreciate the stronger more vocal characteristics of the outgoing child as much as the easygoing nature of the quieter one, the older they get. Honestly, by the time my youngest was about 7 he just lit up the room, he was a heart on his sleeve kind of joyful character who everyone found fun to be around.

so just keep going, you are at a difficult stage but it will pass. As long as you do your best to try to appreciate each child in their own way and not to compare them, it will all be fine. Absolutely zero tolerance of fighting. Number one rule in families.

This sounds really hard OP, and completely understandable to see the woods for the trees when everything seems so difficult. I think it is a situation that is salvageable with some work and while you'll never get siblings to stop arguing, you could hopefully be able to reduce to intensity of it, how you react to it and their arguing over yourself.

I think small changes will be good to start. I've been reading recently from different sources that children these ages only need about 20 minutes of focused 1:1 time where you put your phone down, spend dedicated time with them and let them decide and lead the activity which is the important part. This could be playing an imagination game, reading etc. This focused time helps "fill their cup" so to speak with a connection with yourself. It might help starting this with each child and emphasis that this is their "special time" with you. This alone might help reduce the frequency of them arguing over you.

No mother working round the clock in the hardest job going should ever feel guilty/useless/worthless. We are literally keeping small human beings alive!!

I have been through those ages twice roughly, as I have four in two different lots. Two lots of two.

Mine are 18 and 15, 10 and 8. It does get easier in some ways but more difficult in other ways. 18 and 8 yo fight a lot and just can't get along. 15 and 10 yo also just as bad. The 18yo and 15yo get on great together out of all the combinations.

I have the same issue. Mine are older and I went on a parenting course where the advice was to keep persevering. Keep trying. Keep at it.

It didn’t get better. They gave me one task to complete that went to shit. I went to class the next week and explained what happened and I could see the instructor was really conflicted because her book told her to keep trying but every time I did it ended up in a bloodbath.

Unfortunately there are some siblings that love pissing each other off and that doesn’t get better as they get older. In fact mine got more nasty and horrible as they got older and found new ways to annoy each other.

I hate to say it but the only thing that worked was constantly punishing them. I couldn’t keep intervening. Moderating their behaviour for them. Explaining and showing. I was exhausted!

So straight to their rooms. Alone. Every time. No exceptions. As soon as they started fighting I would make them stop what they were doing and go to their rooms. It took a while but they eventually got the message. I still do it now and they are much older. As soon as they start on each other I end it.

Honestly OP, when I read your post earlier today I felt relief knowing I am not the only one, no practical advice but very much in the trenches with you

I really am so grateful. It hasn’t been a massively enjoyable holiday, despite really wanting it to be, because I’ve been spread so thin.

I do get irritable at the ‘just get them out’ posts as it isn’t a magic solution. The first reason it frustrates me is that I do. If I go through this holiday, ds broke up for school on the 19th.

Saturday 20th - birthday party in the morning then took dd to a princess event at a farm while ds went to a special showing of elf at the cinema with dh.

sunday 21st - went to a trampoline park

monday 22nd - went to a national trust place and did a trail.

Tuesday 23rd - went to a farm to visit Santa

Wednesday 24th - another national trust place

Christmas Day - probably the only day we didn’t ’go out’ but PIL were over which is a novelty for the children.

Boxing Day - took them to a country park for a few hours

Saturday 27th - went on a kids pony trek then to the petting farm

Sunday 28th - again, one of the few days we didn’t do much.

Monday 29th - went ice skating and to soft play

tuesday 30th - went to a forestry centre for a trail and to play

New Year’s Eve - this was when DH had ds and I had dd and went to soft play with a friend

New Year’s Day - went to a wildlife park

So as you can see they’ve been out and about plenty and I fully expect that the next criticism will be that I do too much and they need downtime at home. Which they’ve also had plenty of.

It has helped because I’ve been feeling like I’m doing a rubbish job as a mum and I can see I’m not the only one feeling that way. This really helps in terms of managing those feelings as they can be quite stressful and difficult.

YANBU the fighting does my head in. Worst bit is i don’t even like myself when im with them because im always shouting. It’s the guilt that neither of them get the best of me. Oh well at least they have each other to turn to about how horrible I am Might give the Sertraline advice a go!

I have two with the same age gap and I HATED it when they were 5 and 2.

They’re now 6 and nearly 4 and I find it so much easier. I think the age gap narrows as they get older but at 5 and 2 it’s like an age gulf.

Oh God me too.

The ‘calm parenting strategies’ do not work. What do you do if they’re physically fighting and utterly ignoring any and all protests from you to nicely stop? I end up pulling them apart like Jack Russell’s and putting the toddler behind his stair gate in his room where he screams blue murder and tries to escape and throws toys down the stairs. DD doesn’t care about toy confiscation, she just gets another toy. If I switch the TV off, she couldn’t care less. If I cancelled plans we would end up sitting inside never doing anything and the fighting would be even worse (and yes we have and do do this on particularly bad days).

Would LOVE to know what others would do in my situation!

Same.

I also spend my days on eggshells, I can’t even leave my two children in the same room together as one will just go up and whack or annoy the other within SECONDS and all hell breaks loose.

I spend 80% of my time ‘mothering’ saying STOP FIGHTING or LEAVE HER/HIM ALONE or IF YOU DO THAT AGAIN I’LL INSERT CONSEQUENCE THEY COULDN’T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT

If I actually follow through said consequence this then results in more screaming, more noise and howls of outrage.

The noise in our house is so bloody awful I actually wear AirPods most of the time because if I didn’t I would go absolutely loopy and have an even shorter fuse than I already do.

DD doesn’t care about toy confiscation, she just gets another toy. If I switch the TV off, she couldn’t care less. If I cancelled plans we would end up sitting inside never doing anything and the fighting would be even worse (and yes we have and do do this on particularly bad days).

My ds is like this. It’s really hard as any sort of consequence exacerbates the situation. Mine don’t fight physically but there’s a lot of whining, take telling, ds winding dd up and then she SCREAMS.

You probably won't want to hear this but IMO your Christmas break schedule is too intense for your younger one. Which is why like I said earlier, splitting them up might be a good idea. If your younger is acting up because of tiredness, it'll make your order act worse too. This schedule might be better for his age, definitely more than enough for him.

In addition to everything I said earlier, I'd ask a question: what makes it easier for everyone to get along? And introduce small changes, step by step. Hold on to those glimmers of nice time.

Agree a lot depends on your attitude and they will be picking up on your mood, that's a really hard one though to dig deep when you're worn out. It might be worth it though.

Mine are the same ages, and yes, it can be hard. I think the age gap at this age is a lot - your older child needs activity and novelty, while your younger needs more rest and more of your focused attention.

Looking at your schedule - i couldn't have done that with my two! It looks like its mostly tailored to entertain your older child - in my case the toddler would be spending a lot of time in those scenarios watching the older one do activities (and getting cranky and restless) or with me following her around trying not to let her get into mischief while hoping child one got on with things independently....

I've mostly accepted that we have to divide children on days out until they are a bit older (trying to swap over often). If I'm taking them out together on my own, I have to stick with places my oldest can mostly get on with things herself, and I can focus on the younger one.

At home, it is hard - I try to set up a craft or something out of reach of the toddler, and dip in and out of it, while playing something else with the baby - i think the misery only sets in when I expect them to actually do things together for very long. I do find it getting easier over time though. I suppose it helps that they really do love one another, and if all else fails, they both love watching Stickman for 30 minutes while I have a cup of tea in relative peace...

I think what I find hardest is that with two, there's no down time, if the toddler is napping you have to do something with the older, so at least they feel they got some undivided attention. I've stopped putting pressure on myself to do anything much else while I have both there on my own - its infinitely harder if I'm also doing housework.

My other best suggestion is to find a friend with similar aged children - mine played for 3! hours today with my friends children of a similar age, with minimal intervention - it was unbelievable.

@GrooveArmada it isn’t that I don’t want to hear it; it was anticipated. I knew someone would take issue with me actually leaving the house, getting some fresh air and exercise, terrible things like that (I’m being facetious I know) but then if I’d posted saying that we’d just mostly chilled at home you know everyone would have been critical of that.

I can’t just split them up. 90% of the time it’s just me here.

@PurpleBettina we must have different toddlers <shrug> most of it was just being outside on walks / play areas. She is fine. And tbh my older one misses out on a lot as it is.

Well, I can only tell you what we did and that was what we sat on the floor and we played with them and then they didn’t fight because you would sit there and physically teach them this one’s for you. That one’s for her. We play nicely together.
And you do that for as long as you need to to teach them how to play without screaming their heads off or snatching. Little children need micromanaging
What do you think it’s gonna happen when they get to school? What do you think the nursery staff do?

What do you think your older one misses out on? I wonder if some of your "issue" is you thinking he misses out, when really he doesn't. It is OK for him to runaround a play park etc alone. It's great for their imagination too.

The more you post, the more and more it's clear you are really trying with the kids. Having to do 90% on your own will be making everything feel a million times harder. Divide and conquer relies on there being another parent around, which there isn't for you.

I apologise for my tone yesterday, I was in a mega grump and you didn't seem to be taking much on board. However the examples you gave were probably not representative of your lifestyle and you got a hard time.

I realise you weren’t replying to me, but this is largely a moot point. My dd meekly hands toys over to other children at playgroups and at nursery; with her brother, she terrorises him! I think if we’re honest with ourselves, most of us were / are probably more horrible to our own siblings than our friends!

Mine don’t get on particularly badly; ds winds dd up and dd whinges for whatever ds has although that is slowly improving. I was feeling very sorry for myself yesterday: the intense noise, mess and lack of ‘me time’ coupled with guilt was intense. For a myriad of reasons, I don’t know many other mums with more than one child, so while I know comparison is the thief of joy it’s hard not to when others are actually, you know, enjoying the holidays while I’m a frazzled wreck of my former self considering sertraline just to get through the day!

@Hercisback1 well, thanks for the apology although I’m a bit lost with the last paragraph. It isn’t the running round the park alone I worry about, although ds can be a bit five going on fifteen and will happily zoom off into the unknown and as I’ve said his listening skills are utterly rubbish so that’s a challenge. It is more that when I look back on his five short years, he’s been the one every time who has had to make compromises and adjustments. Our (dhs and my) original plan was for me to get a job where DH lived; prior to 2020, I lived in my house and he lived in his and I stayed with him weekends and holidays. Covid paused that and I was 39 at the time so we didn’t wait. I didn’t expect to get pregnant the first month of trying but I didn’t expect and along came ds at the end of 2020. I got a job easily enough starting September 21, but it was full time which meant ds was in nursery full time from being not quite 9 months to being around 19 months, as I had to work FT for a year before requesting PT. So then toddler ds had maybe two or three months of a better balance then I got pregnant again. It wasn’t a ‘bad’ pregnancy by any means, especially considering my age (!) but I was tired, achey, sick. Then when ds was two and a half along comes dd and of course since then he’s had to share me.

DD by contrast got a full year off with me on maternity leave, she’s only ever done three days at nursery and now only does two, she has three days a week just with me. I worry that ds is pushed out a lot. He is definitely closer to his dad and dd to me at the moment; I guess it could change.

Ahh that makes a lot of sense. Sorry I misinterpreted that you were worried he missed out because he did things alone.

DS hasn't missed out at all. He's had more opportunities to socialise and build those social skills. He's learned to adapt to change, and he has 2 loving parents and a sibling.

I've worked FT with both of mine, and I never think they've missed out. They had different opportunities and life experiences. You made decisions that were the best at the time. Financial security is worth a hell of a lot, don't dismiss the positive impact that's had. Would DD benefit from an extra day or half day in nursery so you got some alone time? (might be an unrealistic/unworkable suggestion).

Ime boys are closer to their dad's anyway. Mine are daddy daddy daddy all day long, until they really need someone, then mummy is the ultimate higher power 😂.

A couple of small tips which may or may not work.
I tried to train my kids to listen out for me. I had a bag of treats, so a funsize chocolate, raisins, a ball, a mini pack of biscuits, a juice carton, if they came quickly when I shouted or waved they got a lucky dip and a lot of praise, telling them what amazing kids they were and had super ears. It did get them into coming when asked, I always used this part way through playtime so that they could go back to playing afterwards. The treat could literally be his snack in a fun container or wrapped in old wrapping paper all contained in a drawstring bag. If they refused to come then I would start to walk away and appear to be leaving, or I would just grab the offending child, offer water only and go straight home. You only need to follow through once or twice and they realise it's worth complying as they get a treat and more playtime rather than cutting playtime short. Always explain as you came so quickly we can have another 10 minutes play or something.
Second if DD is terrorising DS then maybe a 2 sided approach is needed. Teach DS if she grabs, shouts, steals, smacks etc to get up and walk away, she's doing it in part for attention. He needs to call to you that he's walked away, he gets a hug, she gets put somewhere away from everyone for a short period of time, saying we don't play like that DD, then no speaking. It's important she sees he gets praised. As soon the time is up tell her when we play together we keep our hands to ourselves, we use quiet voices, etc when she starts to play again and manages even 1 minute of playing nicely you and DS say well done DD you're playing nicely. Then each day on your own with DS say I was so impressed how good / grown up / what a kind brother you are to DD. Lots and lots of praise to him. DH should use the same approach.
Apologies if this approach has been suggested already.
It sounds like you're having a tough time. Children are exhausting. Loads of attention and micromanaging is needed sometimes. Please make sure you have a time to yourself each week, it's really needed.
Best of luck.