I dread phone calls with my deep thinking daughter

[Isthatmyleopard]

My daughter is in her mid-20s and an incredibly deep thinker, she studied philosophy, religion and ethics and a MA in philosophy, she is considering a PhD. She was baptised/first communion as a child but we've had little engagement with the church lately, she however has returned, goes to mass often but not weekly. She is incredible, and I am very proud of her, but she never seems to be able to approach a topic lightly. It makes me dread phone calls as seemingly the most basic conversation can be turned into philosophy, theology or sociology. She isn't forcing a belief on me at all more so she is inquisitive, the adult version of a toddler who can't stop asking why and loves to play devils advocate, or have deep conversations about a totally abstract topic. In particular she loves to discuss how different philosophical schools of thought intertwine or compete with religion, the theology of various Christian denominations and the roots of breakaway churches/schisms. I often ask for a lighter phone call just about her life as she has friends and is social and sporty, but after a brief overview it always goes into ... and we spoke about this, followed by her asking questions on my thoughts on the topic. Even discussions about books go far deeper than I can handle. She also does it with sport, we both enjoy tennis but I can never just comment on a match without it turning into a conversation on the sociology of women in sports, the psychology of competition etc.
All that's to say I find it exhausting, if she were just sharing her thoughts I wouldn't mind so much, but it often comes with lots of questions such as what are your thoughts? Why do you think that?

Today we met for lunch and she told me it makes her sad I don't show the same interest in her interests as I do her brothers or call her as often, I explained why and that her brothers are more content with small talk so I find calling them requires less mental energy, she apologised and said she doesn't know how to turn off the deep thinking. She has a long term boyfriend who seems to be interested in the intellectual sparring so I'm not sure why she is so keen to get it from me.

AIBU to find this exhausting? How do I handle it before it damages our relationship?

I’m like your daughter. And my daughter is like your daughter. I can see it in people’s faces when I go that way as I inevitably do. I also find my daughter exhausting. I’m not sure what you or I can do about it. I exhaust myself

My teenage DC is prone to this and I honestly dread it so much I tend to try to look busy when I see DC approaching for 'a chat'. I feel guilty as I know DC has picked up that I'm avoiding talking (listening really).
I have started to ask if DC would like to go for a walk so I can do something while listening rather than just spend an hour or two focusing just on in depth conversation. Is that an option?

Sounds like someone should become a professor! I’m a philosophy prof myself. She’s in an overzealous grad student phase. Try to be supportive. It will pass in a few years. I recommend a philosophy PhD.

I'm the world's greatest bore, or I would be if I allowed myself to be. She needs to learn that the other person is as entitled to control the conversation as she is.

I can guarantee, if she does a PhD she’ll be more than sick of deep conversations about philosophy by the time she’s finished 😆 (this isn’t just funny but actually true, by the way. Nothing cures intellectual rumination like doing a PhD does!)

Perhaps her destiny is to be an academic. But once it’s her job she’ll get more than enough of it and will be fed up of visiting it on non-academics. Mind you, there aren’t many jobs in philosophy academia right now. But for some people they aren’t ever happy unless they’re in academia (I know many of these people 🤣)

It might work to position it that an important life skill is the ability to meet people where they are and make them feel comfortable - and she can start learning that important lesson with you. I’m a bit the same way, and I’ve always been a bit arrogant about the fact that I love a deep conversation. But I had a bit of an eye opener recently and realised that a) I was being really rude, intrusive and making people feel uncomfortable, and b) it was a cover for my lack of social skills. I’ve really worked on it, and I notice people are more comfortable with me, chat to me for longer and more happily, and make more effort to seek out my company. I am much happier. I do have some friends and family who share my love of a deep chat, but I have learnt even with them, I need to check their readiness and gain consent for what could be seen as intrusive questioning. You will be doing your daughter a massive favour if you push back when she makes you uncomfortable - “look, that’s a good example. I’ve been clear that I don’t want that kind of conversation tonight, and you have crossed that boundary again”.

She is tempted by academia but can't decide if her passion lies in philosophy or theology. I do try to be supportive but it's incredibly exhausting.

There’s not many academic opportunities in theology nor philosophy of religion, sadly. But if she’s interested in other fields of philosophy then that’s a feasible career path.

I'm like that with people I have a deep relationship with. I tended towards deep conversations with my late DF because he was always up for them. I would feel rejected and unheard to find out that he actually just wanted a pointless relationship filled with superficial small talk. I couldn't imagine life where my closest friends/family were so boring.
She clearly wants to know your opinion on these topics and thinks you're a worthy conversation partner.
She's got her priorities right and she's not talking to a new acquaintance at a party where she might need to rein it in, she's talking to her mum where she should be able to be herself. I think YABVU not to just talk about real things with her instead of pointless chit chat. Be careful what you wish for, in 20 years time she'll just be breezy and distant if you keep pushing her away for wanting to talk about anything of substance.

My brother and I were talking about this. We're quite similar in that we have wide-ranging interests in Big Topics, love arguing sparring, and neither of us was educated to full capacity.

Not many people are interested in the same type of conversation, so we tend to go overboard when we meet up. Our ramblings tend to follow a looped path, going something like:

chat, personal news -> comment on world event/issue -> exchange of information, exchange of views (argument) -> vaguely relevant personal experience -> discussion of personal experience -> deeper investigation of personal stuff -> world event/issue -> exchange, argument, etc ->->->

This way, we both get a fix of Deep Thoughts and intellectual challenge, while also catching up on each other's lives and exploring any problems we might be having, ambitions and aspirations, etc.

I have no idea whether you're finding DD's mind focus too detached from everyday life? If so, you might be coming away from these discussions with lots of interesting ideas but little sense of having communicated. If there is something like this, you could definitely raise this with her; it's an interesting question of human interaction and the lynchpins of relationship building.

FWIW, there's masses of research on social communication, what's essential and what's dysfunctional, etc. It's an intersection of psychology with anthropology and, therefore, relevant to both theology and philosophy.

@ParallelLimes As an adult though, she does need to take her Mum’s feelings and needs into consideration.

You're her mum, you're probably the only person in the world who can (and should) tell her when she's being a cracking bore and needs to lighten up. She may not like it, but it's for her own good.

It’s her long term interest and life’s work, and she’s trying to engage you. She wants to include you and for you to think together. It’s quite cruel to keep rejecting her.

At the same time, it’s also tedious and draining to be forced into another person’s boring special interest.

It sounds like you should meet in the middle and have deep conversations one time, and light conversations the next.

I agree with previous posters that she needs to learn appropriate levels of intensity, and that her own interests are not universally interesting.

My DH is very like this . His degree is Philosophy. It must be a thing - I never realised till reading this! I do sympathise sometimes you just want to talk about trivia. I don't know what the solution is though . I can kind of zone out a bit after 44 years . I do find they're just talking their ideas through - they arent really conversing as such. It better to just let them ramble. Going for a walk so youve at least had some exercise while listening to them seems a good idea. Sorry I cant be any more help !

I'm probably a recovering version of your daughter... 😁... I find small talk utterly kind numbingly difficult.... Some people of my acquaintance spent 35mibutes the other day discussing how one of their daughters took a jumper back to x store... Nothing different about jumper exchange... I was in this group... I was waiting for some punchline or some amaxinf event happened... Nope... 😱 😁

Can you say... Daughter I love you more than anything! We are so proud of you.. But we spin in different worlds...

I need lighter conversation and you love in depth debates... Can we agree that we split the time... So you can have the first half hour and I can have the second?? Before we both explode with frustration!

I understand what you mean Op,
Sometimes one just wants to talk about Strictly or the fact that your next door neighbour has parked in your designated parking space

Yup. Same degree too!

God love these deep thinkers. She is genuinely very intelligent has had some very interesting thoughts where I genuinely think she could write a book on them! But it is just totally over my head. My husband jokes that her catchphrase is “why though” and mine is “I don’t know I haven’t really thought about it”.

My SIL is the same. You can’t make a light hearted comment without a po faced response or moralising. For her it’s a lack of emotional reciprocity: two way attunement to a conversation. It’s an inability (wilfully or otherwise) to register how you are feeling (not just her own feelings) as well as the impact of what she’s saying. Some people will never get it but others develop the muscle over their adult lives.

I find the easiest way is to set up light conversational boundaries eg. short non-commital answers when she veers off into introspection/analysis/moralising. She’s fiercely clever and a deep thinker but it’s exhausting.

It will improve over time as she is exposed to others with different attitudes towards conversation. As her mother, I recommend not telling her she has crossed boundaries or using similar language, since she's not doing anything wrong that justifies such a label, as some suggested. This would be disproportionate and could embarrass her, making her feel rejected and possibly pulling back from your relationship. She clearly values you as someone she can be herself with and trusts you to engage in deep conversations. Perhaps you could jokingly say that you can't always keep up with her reasoning or that you're less intellectually motivated. Honestly, it doesn’t seem right to shame a young adult for being a kind and decent person in a world where many only watch TikTok videos. You've done a wonderful job raising an intelligent woman, and that’s what truly matters.

She needs to become an academic. Sociology and politics might have a few more inroads than philosophy right now (I am a sociologist of digital media).

I have written three books. I have an international reputation in my (admittedly small) subfield. My family will never read my books. They are vaguely impressed by the fact I have written real, published books, but I would never expect them to be a captive audience for my interests. Right now, like most people who think about it, I'm fascinated, excited and scared of gen AI and specifically what it means for the global economy. My family don't really know what gen AI is. Well, my brother does, but his real interests lie outside his work.

I am capable of small talk, though I find it boring. I think I used to be a bit more like your daughter when I was younger, but I grew up. I strongly suspect I'm somewhat autistic (I have ARFID), but I'm still capable of learning appropriate conversation for different times and places.

Just because what she wants to rabbit on about is seen as intellectual, it doesn't make it any more interesting for the other person than someone who won't shut up about types of car or their football team. She's indulging herself and ignoring the social rules of conversation. I agree that as her mum you need to let her know when she's doing it.

I wonder if your DD might be a bit ND, OP, if she can only talk comfortably about her particular theoretical interests and can't seem to change modes even when she's told that this isn't of interest to the other person.

Oh nos she absolutely can talk about other things, she just drifts into the abstract naturally it’s not that she is incapable of engaging with topics that aren’t her particular interests. I also don’t believe she is neurodivergent.

I see another poster also asked if she was ND....... It was one of the first things I thought of tbh! The deep need to understand the why of things especially.

However, I'm with you, I don't need that level of navel gazing on a regular basis, it's mentally exhausting and frankly I don't care that much about most things to have given them that level of thought.

Can you practice a 'hmm, not something I've really given much thought to, what do YOU think,/what makes you think that/ etc?
Listening to someones interests and nodding along is a nice thing to do. Being expected to contribute an equal amount to reflection on the topic is the problem imo.