I dread phone calls with my deep thinking daughter

[Isthatmyleopard]

My daughter is in her mid-20s and an incredibly deep thinker, she studied philosophy, religion and ethics and a MA in philosophy, she is considering a PhD. She was baptised/first communion as a child but we've had little engagement with the church lately, she however has returned, goes to mass often but not weekly. She is incredible, and I am very proud of her, but she never seems to be able to approach a topic lightly. It makes me dread phone calls as seemingly the most basic conversation can be turned into philosophy, theology or sociology. She isn't forcing a belief on me at all more so she is inquisitive, the adult version of a toddler who can't stop asking why and loves to play devils advocate, or have deep conversations about a totally abstract topic. In particular she loves to discuss how different philosophical schools of thought intertwine or compete with religion, the theology of various Christian denominations and the roots of breakaway churches/schisms. I often ask for a lighter phone call just about her life as she has friends and is social and sporty, but after a brief overview it always goes into ... and we spoke about this, followed by her asking questions on my thoughts on the topic. Even discussions about books go far deeper than I can handle. She also does it with sport, we both enjoy tennis but I can never just comment on a match without it turning into a conversation on the sociology of women in sports, the psychology of competition etc.
All that's to say I find it exhausting, if she were just sharing her thoughts I wouldn't mind so much, but it often comes with lots of questions such as what are your thoughts? Why do you think that?

Today we met for lunch and she told me it makes her sad I don't show the same interest in her interests as I do her brothers or call her as often, I explained why and that her brothers are more content with small talk so I find calling them requires less mental energy, she apologised and said she doesn't know how to turn off the deep thinking. She has a long term boyfriend who seems to be interested in the intellectual sparring so I'm not sure why she is so keen to get it from me.

AIBU to find this exhausting? How do I handle it before it damages our relationship?

Unfortunately the conversation has to be meaningful for both parties.

If one party doesn't care, or doesn't have a particular view or doesn't wish to share their view....it isn't meaningful it can feel intrusive and sometimes very dull.

OP, have you tried swinging questions back...asking her why she thinks a certain way and then following it up with why questions. At least that way you can just listen!

As you have articulated the issue to her, I would suggest that the door is now open for you to say “stop!” when conversations go that way and in so many words say I’m not getting into this again.

Who are you to decide what is meaningful conversation and what isn’t? How arrogant you sound.

I'm a teacher and there's times for a deep and meaningful discussion about subjects and teaching methods and there's times to keep it light because the other person isn't up for it (or has a pressing need to get a coffee/get to the loo). It's definitely a social skull to figure out who you can have which type of conversation with and when. I do have a few students who fail to appreciate that I need to grab lunch more than I need to extend a two hour lesson...I say "let's walk and talk!" and march them towards the staff room.

I also have colleagues who don't want to get too deep. It's a job. Although exam invigilators can be surprisingly interesting and supply teachers sometimes have cool "real lives" (we've had a couple of resting actors).

It's taken years to "train" my MIL that I don't want to have extended phone conversations - not because she's not interesting but because I simply don't have time in the evenings and she can get a bit ranty about politics and has absolutely no interest in alternative views on anything.

WhatsApp, and going for a walk (as pp said) are your friends here. My DMum doesn't like to discuss anything serious so we paint together. She's serious about painting, at least...

Just tell your daughter regularly that you love her and you don't need to have long philosophical discussions to show it. Time for long discussions is a luxury for the young, old, underoccupied and (often) men. Those without other pressing concerns.

A life of the mind is a noble thing but it's not for everyone.

I think she sounds great! I love having friends like this.

She’s obviously found people like her in her friends and is happy.

She finds small talk as boring as you find her conversation.

Apparently Socrates would have agreed with your daughter

"Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people."
~Socrates~

Look op, my ND son loves to talk to me about history and world events. He listens to lots of podcasts and reads a lot of non fiction about a wide variety of things. I really struggle with it sometimes as he really is only interested in talking about the soecific thing he is currently interested in. The only way to really engage with him.is to find out at least a bit about the topic . The problem is that I don't always have the energy, interest or intellectual skills to apply to everything my son is interested in. He has a lot more success with DH who is also incredibly well read ans who just knows a lot more about history, world events and just 'stuff'

I sometimes feel very uncomfortable with it because I am out of my depth. I have nothing to say on some of the things discussed because I don't know anything about them. This can sometimes make me feel somewhat inadequate and not able to keep up, and I end up bored

I do sometimes spend somw of my time reading about things DS might like to talk about and this can work quite well but DS and DH are just more intelligent than I am and live in their heads more than I do. I can make an effort to learn about some things we can talk about,to help my relationship with DS and I do sometimes but I can't fundamentally change the person I am, and neither can he

I also say if it is a topic I really have nothing to say about and when I have had enough talking about it

Thee is no denying though that DS is closer to DH than he is to me, I have just accepted that, whilst still putting in some effort to leann some things I might not otherwise, just because it may help me connect with DS more.

So I am not sure of the answer completely but my guess is that it is a combination of accepting you are different people and some sort of conversational compromise where your daughter tries to focus on lighter topics some of the time and you maybe read some basic books about the odd topic your DD is interested in so you can engage at least a bit on some of them and it is not so boring for you. Good luck x

Exactly, and often it’s not ‘conversation’ in these circumstances, it’s one person talking AT the other, because they see themselves as imparting fantastic information and fact that the other is just in awe of them droning on about!

Oh gosh this made me laugh and I don't know if it was even meant to be funny!

But not every conversation has to be deep and meaningful. What is actually wrong with just having a fun and lighthearted conversation, talking about what TV you’ve watched recently etc?

I find people who can’t engage in appropriate small talk incredibly dull and humourless much of the time.

I don’t think this is necessarily true either. Many people who are deep thinkers are also very inquisitive (as OP says her daughter is) and
want to bounce ideas around with people, delve deeper in to topics and fall down rabbit holes.

In my experience, it’s usually the small talkers that like to talk ‘at’ people. I often wonder why someone has just spent 45 minutes explaining how they found out their dog had fleas - do they want my opinion? Input? Sympathy? Would it be easier if I left a cardboard cut out of myself for them to talk at so I can just go and be alone with my dog and read a book?

I don't understand how an adult with healthy functioning can describe normal conversation about day to day life, personal interests, relationships, jobs, family etc as superficial and pointless. If anything is pointless it's introspective ruminating about "deep" matters that actually have little or no impact on life. Fascinating for a couple of years at uni but incredibly pretentious to insist on inflicting it on others any longer.

Putting aside the intelligence, nuance and neural capacity, it's just plain rude to direct the conversation constantly to subjects one person is interested im. It would be just as mentally exhausting if someone was constantly talking in depth about even something as unchallenging as a film they love for example.

You've told her and she's aware, perhaps it's harder on the phone as she can't see your facial cues. But she does need to listen out for you diverting the in depth talk with verbal cues, of course its lovely she wants to talk to you in depth and fantastic she is of an inquiring mind.

The psychology and sociology impact of two way communication and the value of small talk could be an interesting topic next time 😅

It seems there are two camps on this topic - the deep thinkers who find small talk draining, and those who prefer small talk and discussing every day events to the need to analyse everything.

Why does either side have to be ‘wrong’ or unhealthy? It’s a simple issue of being incompatible with one another. Deep thinkers should gravitate towards one another, small talkers should gravitate towards one another - rather than throwing shade at each other.

I don’t really get who decides she is a bore. She is passionate and involving you in the conversation. If she just monologued at you then you would have a point. I think you match the energy you spend on your other children or your favouritism becomes toxic. If she isn’t struggling with wider relationships in her life it is a you problem. If she isn’t struggling just just guide and model and support even if it’s a bit dull for you.

Send her my way! I’m desperate for some deep, meaningful and philosophical musings. Nobody in my life is that way inclined. I’ll take her! 😂

@VanGoSunflowers indeed! Neither is better or worse, just different.

Why does either side have to be ‘wrong’ or unhealthy? It’s a simple issue of being incompatible with one another.

I don’t disagree with you, but there are occasions where the two sides need to interact (work / family obligations being the obvious ones). So both sides need to adapt and be able to communicate with each other. I don’t see much of that happening with the posters who say they prefer deep thinking.

It seems strange that she persists in these conversations with someone who isn't really into it, @Isthatmyleopard . My first thought when reading your OP is that her persistence must be motivated by something other than simple interest in the subjects she is discussing. I thought of three possibilities:

1. It is natural for bright children to use their intellect as a forum for acting out some of the tensions in their relationships with their parents. (I know that, as a teen, I over-intellectualised in my discussions with parents as a way of expressing anger and distance.) But your DD is older now and it is odd that she should be inflicting unwanted intellectualism in general conversation. Can you think of any unresolved issues in your relationship that might be motivating it?
2. Alternatively, does she suffer from low self-esteem? It could be that she defensively turns every conversation around to intellectual themes because that is the one area of her life in which she feels she has worth and ability. Did she seem over-reliant on praise for good schoolwork as a child? Children who do well academically often cling hold of that success when facing wider challenges where 'success' can't be easily measured.
3. It sounds like she is moving in a world which offers her plenty of opportunities for having these sorts of discussions with people who are interested. And those people will be up to date with current reading and intellectual fashions. Perhaps she feels a little unself-confident when talking to her friends, so the things she would like to say to them get held back until she is in a 'safer' conversation with a parent who is naturally very impressed and appreciative of her daughter's abilities (and who hasn't done the reading!).

You're not "less intelligent" @bumblingbovine49- don't do yourself down. No doubt part of your capacity is taken up making life run smoothly for these two brainboxes! Do either of them ever spend time reading up on things that interest you? I'm guessing not...

Yes you have a point. I was probably over simplifying it.
I fall in the deep thinker camp but I have several topics that I know the small talkers in my life are also interested in and tend to use those as a middle ground - fortunately, I know a lot of dog people so that’s always a good one to fall back on! We watch some of the same TV shows and quite like a little chat about skin care 😂

We need to have more "normies" in this world, frankly, rather than people with notions droning on about stuff which bores the arse off nearly everyone unfortunate enough to have to listen to it.

I have some very deep interests in a number of wildly arcane topics. I also have enough self-awareness not to inflict those interests on others.

Whereas on the other side I dread phonecalls with my mother because she only ever wants to talk about inconsequential gossip and have small talk about various people at the tennis club and in the village who I dont know and never will.

You find her chat dull...the flip side is she probably finds your chat dull...

This is our household. Dh and ds2, who is doing Politics, Philosophy and Economics at uni, are both cut from the same 'heavy and involved topics' cloth of conversation. Me? "Don't know, I've never given it any thought."

It is draining. I'm proud of their right-thinking intelligence but they tire me out expecting meaningful contributions from me...and neither of them take the hint to ease up, or accept that I'm not bothered.
I don't like to be rude but they bore the tits off me on the regular.

But sometimes we only have the time and mental space for general conversations about the dog and uncle Steve's knee operation. Not every interaction has to be deep and meaningful and the daughter has some responsibility to recognise that. It should work both ways.

Oh no I meant in terms of not recognising that not all people/situations require in depth conversation.

My son is obsessed with Mario, you tubes top 100 and flags! I’m an unwilling expert on these three topics now !

DS does this. I find it works well to pull the conversation to my level so "Hang on, you've said a lot there for me to take in. Can we go back to the first point about the socialisation of women lacrosse players, tell me again, so I can think about that..."
I'm being honest that I've not given it as much thought, don't know as much about it, so will have no game changing contribution, but am willing to try.