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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I dread phone calls with my deep thinking daughter

429 replies

Isthatmyleopard · 30/12/2025 02:56

My daughter is in her mid-20s and an incredibly deep thinker, she studied philosophy, religion and ethics and a MA in philosophy, she is considering a PhD. She was baptised/first communion as a child but we've had little engagement with the church lately, she however has returned, goes to mass often but not weekly. She is incredible, and I am very proud of her, but she never seems to be able to approach a topic lightly. It makes me dread phone calls as seemingly the most basic conversation can be turned into philosophy, theology or sociology. She isn't forcing a belief on me at all more so she is inquisitive, the adult version of a toddler who can't stop asking why and loves to play devils advocate, or have deep conversations about a totally abstract topic. In particular she loves to discuss how different philosophical schools of thought intertwine or compete with religion, the theology of various Christian denominations and the roots of breakaway churches/schisms. I often ask for a lighter phone call just about her life as she has friends and is social and sporty, but after a brief overview it always goes into ... and we spoke about this, followed by her asking questions on my thoughts on the topic. Even discussions about books go far deeper than I can handle. She also does it with sport, we both enjoy tennis but I can never just comment on a match without it turning into a conversation on the sociology of women in sports, the psychology of competition etc.
All that's to say I find it exhausting, if she were just sharing her thoughts I wouldn't mind so much, but it often comes with lots of questions such as what are your thoughts? Why do you think that?

Today we met for lunch and she told me it makes her sad I don't show the same interest in her interests as I do her brothers or call her as often, I explained why and that her brothers are more content with small talk so I find calling them requires less mental energy, she apologised and said she doesn't know how to turn off the deep thinking. She has a long term boyfriend who seems to be interested in the intellectual sparring so I'm not sure why she is so keen to get it from me.

AIBU to find this exhausting? How do I handle it before it damages our relationship?

OP posts:
latetothefisting · 30/12/2025 09:22

BlueJuniper94 · 30/12/2025 06:54

I really feel for your poor daughter! And this thread is terrifying with the number of normies who can't handle anything beyond an entirely contentless conversation. Thinking is boring and exhausting. It's a good job democracy is in its twilight years as we are not well suited to this form of governance 😂

For someone who apparently identifies as such an intellectual, and so superior to all those "normies" you might want to check your reading comprehension - literally nobody has said they can't handle "an entitely contentless conversation".

What they have said is there needs to be balance, as in all things.

Even the most well dressed, haute couture designer will sometimes be in situations where they need/want to wear comfy clothes to give the dog a bath.

Even a gourmet cooking fine dining Michelin started chef will sometimes need/want to make toast or plain pasta for a fussy five year old.

Even the most dedicated, relentlessly training and improving olympian will sometimes need/want time to just crash out on the sofa.

There is nothing more boring than people who are the same all the time.

Personally I believe being able to adjust your conversation appropriately and interact differently depending on who you are talking to is what makes the difference between your average academic and geniuses. Both steven hawkins and einstein were popular because they made complicated subjects accessible, had other interests beyond academia and had good senses of humour! They engaged at the same level with colleagues and friends who shared their passions -they didn't just monologue at people who weren't interested.

Thepeopleversuswork · 30/12/2025 09:24

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 30/12/2025 09:13

Do you think people who make ‘mindless chit chat’ can’t think deeply?

’Chit chat’ is actually wants sustains the world. It’s about making connections.

I can think deeply. I just don’t want to talk about it much.

Edited
Show quote history

I agree chit chat is important, its the glue of social life and I agree also that heavy duty conversations can be quite draining. You need both and you need to respect when someone isn’t in the mood for something earnest.

But the idea that anyone who wants to talk about anything more meaningful than what they had for breakfast is boring just makes me sad.

The OP’s daughter is trying to connect with her mother and the OP seems to be inwardly rolling her eyes at the prospect of having to think about anything less superficial. It made me feel very sorry for the daughter.

giallo · 30/12/2025 09:24

She’s trying to connect with you. I could never discuss anything of any depth with my own mother and it was frustrating. I can talk about trivia as much as anyone but my mother actively avoided anything even vaguely deep and sometimes it felt like she was choosing to not see or understand a large part of who I was. I am not saying your daughter couldn’t dial it back a bit and she will grow out of it when she finishes her studies with a bit of luck.

saraclara · 30/12/2025 09:24

But the idea that “deep thinking” is inherently boring has really depressed me.

No-one has said that deep thinking is inherently boring.
Lots of people have said that lighter conversation is, though.

SBGM247 · 30/12/2025 09:25

She sounds amazing.

pictoosh · 30/12/2025 09:28

Agree that this thread has attracted a lot of arrogance.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 30/12/2025 09:28

saraclara · 30/12/2025 09:22

And I find this thread depressing because so many people on it think that anything less than a deep dive into a subject is vacuous and meaningless, and means that anyone weary of a long deep and meaningful conversation is boring and stupid.

There is a whole lot of space between a deep philosophical discussion and 25 minutes about someone's trip to Tesco, which many posters are refusing to acknowledge. And with regard to the OP, they are not for one moment acknowledging that the OP is equally entitled to have a conversation that she can enjoy.

There's a stunning amount of arrogance here.

Show quote history

Yep this thread is full of pomposity and arrogance.

Some people need to get deep thinking about anthropology or language.

Social chat is essential to society, it’s what glues us together. It’s how we find friends and mates,

As someone who loves social chat yet is educated to post grad level, l find deep talk selfish, domineering and draining. Just because people don’t do it doesn’t mean they can’t.

And now the battle lines are drawn😁

saraclara · 30/12/2025 09:28

The OP’s daughter is trying to connect with her mother and the OP seems to be inwardly rolling her eyes at the prospect of having to think about anything less superficial. It made me feel very sorry for the daughter.

No, OP is finding it difficult because these are the only conversations that her daughter will have with her, and that the calls are long and draining.
OP is also trying to connect with her daughter, but does not have the space to do so because these long and deep conversations are all that the DD can do.

I'm sure that OP would be interested in these conversations occasionally, but not all the time

Thepeopleversuswork · 30/12/2025 09:29

saraclara · 30/12/2025 09:24

But the idea that “deep thinking” is inherently boring has really depressed me.

No-one has said that deep thinking is inherently boring.
Lots of people have said that lighter conversation is, though.

The OP literally says in her post she “dreads” talking to her daughter.

This isn’t about judging people for not talking about philosophy or being “arrogant” as you put it. Its about the idea that any conversation of any significance or depth, with a member of your family to boot, is something to be dreaded, feared and avoided.

OP is signaling to her daughter that meaningful discussions are boring and an object of dread and should be off limits. Think about what that says to the daughter.

pictoosh · 30/12/2025 09:32

I agree with @saraclara .

For such supposedly deep and intelligent people, some of you don't understand how conversation works.

saraclara · 30/12/2025 09:34

Thepeopleversuswork · 30/12/2025 09:29

The OP literally says in her post she “dreads” talking to her daughter.

This isn’t about judging people for not talking about philosophy or being “arrogant” as you put it. Its about the idea that any conversation of any significance or depth, with a member of your family to boot, is something to be dreaded, feared and avoided.

OP is signaling to her daughter that meaningful discussions are boring and an object of dread and should be off limits. Think about what that says to the daughter.

Show quote history

You have taken that word 'dread' out of context.

She is incredible, and I am very proud of her, but she never seems to be able to approach a topic lightly. It makes me dread phone calls as seemingly the most basic conversation can be turned into philosophy, theology or sociology.

The 'never' is the important word. OP says that she'd like to talk about her daughter's life sometimes. Hear what she's been doing, how her sport is going. To connect with her that way. But her daughter is unable to do this.

If the phone conversations were 50/50 lighter/deep, OP wouldn't dread them, I assume.

CuriousOtter26 · 30/12/2025 09:37

I'm like your daughter, always have been. Want to talk about anything and everything, ask why, go deeper.

Over time I've realised a lot of people can't go past small talk and find deep talk boring. I find small talk unbearable. Most of the conversations I have with my mum seem totally superficial but I know the smalltalk means something to her. However I don't feel connected with her deeply as we never talk about anything deeply!

Lurkingandlearning · 30/12/2025 09:38

Maybe tell her you are immensely proud of her and what she has achieved. But her knowledge and intellectual curiosity now far exceeds your own. Although you can no longer have interesting and stimulating conversations about those topics, you really hope you can find some other common ground for example x or y (of your choosing)

JustFrustrated · 30/12/2025 09:39

I find this whole thread so hilarious.

As someone who enjoys "deeper" conversation, and who's sister is a world renowned professor, my other sister incredibly high up in the NZ government and a brother who's high in the UK civil service.....there's one thing we all know - deep conversations.

And yet, we all love to just....chat too. When we're pinging each other TV show recommendations, or sharing a drink over Christmas...we really aren't getting into the philosophical or "deep conversations".

We do have them, with each other and with the wider family (who would all say due to generational gap, they're less educated and thus their opinions are usually based on just that...opinion, rather than historical understanding or theoretical points) and they're stimulating and engaging.....but to do that all the time? No thank you.

We love when our niece brings her whole random self to the party and declares "I prefer the previous cat biscuits grandma, they tasted nicer" or the nephew demands to know why I wanted Lando to win over Oscar.

Because that's how human civilisation is meant to communicate, about everything.

It's not always meant to be lofty and heavy and in-depth. It's also meant to be frivolous and daft and easy.

In fact one of my favourite people to talk to is my work colleague who moved here from Iberia, and we can talk about everything in the hour it takes me to drive home, our favourite call has gone from dating and all it's pitfalls, to the Portuguese exports, why Hollywood exists and VAWG straight back to boys....

There is an awful lot of "holier than thou" on this thread, which just screams to me that people think theyre smarter than they actually are, and use deep conversations as a way to show they're better than those they deem "thick". When actually, you're missing out on all the nuance and fun of life.

TotHappy · 30/12/2025 09:40

I used to be very like your daughter, my degree was in Theology too. I loved talking about schism, what the roots of various movements are. My father in law was interested in philosophy and religion too, had lots of chats with him about it, plus my sister and mum (both vicars).
Now... I can't be bothered. I just can't engage. It's since having children I think. I'm so tired all the time, so overwhelmed with tasks, my to do list always overflowing, my house always dirty. Someone always in crisis.
I miss old me. I also now have next to no relationship with FIL and a much less intimate relationship with sis because we don't have these convos anymore. I just can't be bothered.
So I really feel you, OP, I couldn't do it right now, but I also really get your daughter. It's so exciting! Ideas are the stuff of life! Maybe it will lessen for her as other life stuff and responsibilities crowd in but maybe that will be a bit sad too.

MarriedWithCauldron · 30/12/2025 09:41

BlueJuniper94 · 30/12/2025 06:54

I really feel for your poor daughter! And this thread is terrifying with the number of normies who can't handle anything beyond an entirely contentless conversation. Thinking is boring and exhausting. It's a good job democracy is in its twilight years as we are not well suited to this form of governance 😂

This comment sums up the problem perfectly. Dismissing anyone who doesn’t want to endlessly, relentlessly debate every issue as a “normie” 🙄🙄 who can’t handle big discussions is reductive and shows a lack of emotional intelligence and maturity. It’s a common theme with people who are academically minded - they are comfortable debating a hot-button issue or philosophical concept, but struggle to handle more emotional issues, and become dismissive of anyone who is uncomfortable with this doesn’t want to pick everything to bits.

saraclara · 30/12/2025 09:46

Needlenardlenoo · 30/12/2025 09:14

I went and read on my Kindle in a similar situation. One of them came over to check I was OK!

Show quote history

... which was really kind of her, don't you think?
I wonder if a bunch of intellectuals having a deep and stimulating conversation would notice and care about someone on the outside of it, sitting alone.

Anonanonay · 30/12/2025 09:48

I hate small talk too. I love in-depth discussions. Luckily I have a son who is a total debate bro and we can go at it for hours when we're alone. I do, however, have a lot of interest in other people and what they're doing so that gets me by socially.

I think the suggestions that you bring this out into the open and agree to divvy up your chats are wise. But please don't make her feel ashamed for being so intellectually curious.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 30/12/2025 09:50

JustFrustrated · 30/12/2025 09:39

I find this whole thread so hilarious.

As someone who enjoys "deeper" conversation, and who's sister is a world renowned professor, my other sister incredibly high up in the NZ government and a brother who's high in the UK civil service.....there's one thing we all know - deep conversations.

And yet, we all love to just....chat too. When we're pinging each other TV show recommendations, or sharing a drink over Christmas...we really aren't getting into the philosophical or "deep conversations".

We do have them, with each other and with the wider family (who would all say due to generational gap, they're less educated and thus their opinions are usually based on just that...opinion, rather than historical understanding or theoretical points) and they're stimulating and engaging.....but to do that all the time? No thank you.

We love when our niece brings her whole random self to the party and declares "I prefer the previous cat biscuits grandma, they tasted nicer" or the nephew demands to know why I wanted Lando to win over Oscar.

Because that's how human civilisation is meant to communicate, about everything.

It's not always meant to be lofty and heavy and in-depth. It's also meant to be frivolous and daft and easy.

In fact one of my favourite people to talk to is my work colleague who moved here from Iberia, and we can talk about everything in the hour it takes me to drive home, our favourite call has gone from dating and all it's pitfalls, to the Portuguese exports, why Hollywood exists and VAWG straight back to boys....

There is an awful lot of "holier than thou" on this thread, which just screams to me that people think theyre smarter than they actually are, and use deep conversations as a way to show they're better than those they deem "thick". When actually, you're missing out on all the nuance and fun of life.

I love this.

Chat is about fun.

The attitude in here is that people who like chat are thick and frivolous.

We’re not.

We like talking about people and to people about crap. Because that’s what makes the world go round.

I’d run away from someone who wanted a deep philosophical conversation. I can still talk about emotions, politics, history, art, tv crap, current affairs, hair, make up, other peoples children. I like hearing it. It’s fun.

Abd we need fun at the moment.

manicpixieschemegirl · 30/12/2025 09:50

OP is signaling to her daughter that meaningful discussions are boring and an object of dread and should be off limits. Think about what that says to the daughter.

I don’t agree with this. OP acknowledged how fantastic she thinks her daughter is - they just have very different communication styles and it’s causing a wee bit of a disconnect.

The definition of meaningful can also be very subjective.

saraclara · 30/12/2025 09:54

MarriedWithCauldron · 30/12/2025 09:41

This comment sums up the problem perfectly. Dismissing anyone who doesn’t want to endlessly, relentlessly debate every issue as a “normie” 🙄🙄 who can’t handle big discussions is reductive and shows a lack of emotional intelligence and maturity. It’s a common theme with people who are academically minded - they are comfortable debating a hot-button issue or philosophical concept, but struggle to handle more emotional issues, and become dismissive of anyone who is uncomfortable with this doesn’t want to pick everything to bits.

Show quote history

Exactly. Thinking that any conversation that doesn't dive into the philosophical is 'contentless' is beyond arrogant.

I'm capable of deep and meaningful conversation and enjoy it. It's great when there's the opportunity to really discuss and debate.
I'm also capable of listening and showing interest in my best friend's love of his football team. I'm also happy to hear about a friend's holiday, and will chat about mine. I can discuss a book with someone without going deeper into it or getting into tangential areas, when I sense that that's not what the other person is looking for. I'm also interested in other people's backgrounds and history.

Basically I do not see myself as the most important person in a conversation, as some of the other deep thinkers on this thread seem to.

stripesandspotsanddots · 30/12/2025 09:58

OP, I do know how this feels. My lovely DD is the same, and when she starts I feel myself glazing over - and can see others doing it too. (I love a deep meaningful convo but there is something about her intensity that paralyses me.)

However, the most important thing is your relationship with your DD and that she feels seen and loved.

Edit: I lost half my post!

What I had suggested was could you approach this as a problem you can try to solve together? “DD I want to engage but I get lost - how can we slow things down?”

Or is there a podcast that you could both listen to and discuss? Preferably something you are interested in. Eg Behind The Crime on BBC sounds - loads of philosophical questions there but more rooted in reality.

Jamesblonde2 · 30/12/2025 09:59

What’s her job?

Allisnotlost1 · 30/12/2025 10:00

Isthatmyleopard · 30/12/2025 02:56

My daughter is in her mid-20s and an incredibly deep thinker, she studied philosophy, religion and ethics and a MA in philosophy, she is considering a PhD. She was baptised/first communion as a child but we've had little engagement with the church lately, she however has returned, goes to mass often but not weekly. She is incredible, and I am very proud of her, but she never seems to be able to approach a topic lightly. It makes me dread phone calls as seemingly the most basic conversation can be turned into philosophy, theology or sociology. She isn't forcing a belief on me at all more so she is inquisitive, the adult version of a toddler who can't stop asking why and loves to play devils advocate, or have deep conversations about a totally abstract topic. In particular she loves to discuss how different philosophical schools of thought intertwine or compete with religion, the theology of various Christian denominations and the roots of breakaway churches/schisms. I often ask for a lighter phone call just about her life as she has friends and is social and sporty, but after a brief overview it always goes into ... and we spoke about this, followed by her asking questions on my thoughts on the topic. Even discussions about books go far deeper than I can handle. She also does it with sport, we both enjoy tennis but I can never just comment on a match without it turning into a conversation on the sociology of women in sports, the psychology of competition etc.
All that's to say I find it exhausting, if she were just sharing her thoughts I wouldn't mind so much, but it often comes with lots of questions such as what are your thoughts? Why do you think that?

Today we met for lunch and she told me it makes her sad I don't show the same interest in her interests as I do her brothers or call her as often, I explained why and that her brothers are more content with small talk so I find calling them requires less mental energy, she apologised and said she doesn't know how to turn off the deep thinking. She has a long term boyfriend who seems to be interested in the intellectual sparring so I'm not sure why she is so keen to get it from me.

AIBU to find this exhausting? How do I handle it before it damages our relationship?

Neither YABU nor YANBU. It sounds like you and your daughter are very different people with different needs and interests. It sounds like she’ll adapt - she’s said she wants to - and you can have the type of conversations that interest you. Hopefully she can find someone else to talk to about things that interest her. I don’t think either of you can change who you are, you’ll just adapt one way or another.

I recognise myself and my mum in your post, and in the end I just stopped talking to my mum about serious or deep things. Like your daughter, I felt really sad that my mum found me hard work and didn’t care to explore the intellectual aspects of the world with me. I wanted to know what she thought about things, I wanted to know her and learn from her. In the end I had to accept that she wasn’t that person. It still makes me sad.

Bloozie · 30/12/2025 10:06

My husband’s best friend is like this. Also Philosophy. He’s a lovely man and wildly interesting - it’s not that he’s boring - but hosting him is, as you say, absolutely draining and he makes you feel incredibly stupid at times. Not on purpose. He’s really encouraging of your stupid responses because you’ve never thought of something before and he’s making you. It’s all a form of exquisite agony.

No advice just sympathy.