I dread phone calls with my deep thinking daughter

[Isthatmyleopard]

My daughter is in her mid-20s and an incredibly deep thinker, she studied philosophy, religion and ethics and a MA in philosophy, she is considering a PhD. She was baptised/first communion as a child but we've had little engagement with the church lately, she however has returned, goes to mass often but not weekly. She is incredible, and I am very proud of her, but she never seems to be able to approach a topic lightly. It makes me dread phone calls as seemingly the most basic conversation can be turned into philosophy, theology or sociology. She isn't forcing a belief on me at all more so she is inquisitive, the adult version of a toddler who can't stop asking why and loves to play devils advocate, or have deep conversations about a totally abstract topic. In particular she loves to discuss how different philosophical schools of thought intertwine or compete with religion, the theology of various Christian denominations and the roots of breakaway churches/schisms. I often ask for a lighter phone call just about her life as she has friends and is social and sporty, but after a brief overview it always goes into ... and we spoke about this, followed by her asking questions on my thoughts on the topic. Even discussions about books go far deeper than I can handle. She also does it with sport, we both enjoy tennis but I can never just comment on a match without it turning into a conversation on the sociology of women in sports, the psychology of competition etc.
All that's to say I find it exhausting, if she were just sharing her thoughts I wouldn't mind so much, but it often comes with lots of questions such as what are your thoughts? Why do you think that?

Today we met for lunch and she told me it makes her sad I don't show the same interest in her interests as I do her brothers or call her as often, I explained why and that her brothers are more content with small talk so I find calling them requires less mental energy, she apologised and said she doesn't know how to turn off the deep thinking. She has a long term boyfriend who seems to be interested in the intellectual sparring so I'm not sure why she is so keen to get it from me.

AIBU to find this exhausting? How do I handle it before it damages our relationship?

She sounds like me - I can’t do small talk and sadly am prone to turning to serious deep subjects on light occasions. It has really limited developing friendship as I am just too ‘heavy’. I have spent a lifetime trying to change it as I can also be funny and entertaining, but can’t turn that on all the time. I am also ND (AuDHD), as is my own DD who is the same - she is studying classics/ancient history and really loving the philosophy modules, too.

Could your DD be ND? If so, might be worth looking at resources to help you navigate your interactions on that basis - for example meet her to go to a museum for specific exhibitions or a show/play, so conversation time is limited and can be steered back to the content of the show/performances. Then, if it gets a little heavy, you can ‘suffer’ it for a a shorter time?

I can see both sides. While it is draining to have to have deep discussions all the time, it is equally draining just to stick to superficial small talk. Is there a reason you aren't willing to sometimes have a deeper discussion?

I definitely think a mix of both or to voice you need to pull conversation back, as suggested above, is a good mix.

I love deep thinkers, small talk can be so draining for me and harder to work at but ui think there's a place for both, and a time. Every convo being small talk or deep thinking is exhausting.

There are times I love a deep convo with my siblings, they love it too. But equally sometimes I just want to a bit of chat and a game of Uno 🤣. I find it flips more to small talk when I'm tired or stressed or ill, I also find it helps to let my sibs know this before they get too excited setting the world to rights.

I’d quite like a deep conversation occasionally instead of the vacuous and superficial ones.

I would respond that you haven’t thought too deeply about the topic, probably don’t know enough about it to have an informed opinion as you haven’t read up on all the research. Just say, “Honestly Kate, I’m just not in the mindset to think about it.”

I think repetitive emphasis of this is what you need to do. It may come across as uncomfortable at first but in time she may realise she needs to find the right audience for her topics.

My DH used to talk a bit much on some topics I had no interest in. I dialled down my responses to, “Mmmm,” and “That’s interesting.” Absorbed nothing lol.

It is now years later he admitted he used to get so passionate by certain topics and now he couldn’t give a hoot about them. I think people change soon enough.

I am your DD (also ND). I am endlessly curious and like other people who are too; it’s not monologing on a special interest it’s being willing to riff and explore both shallow and deep topics together. I definitely also do small talk. My mum does not communicate in a way that is compatible with mine: we do speak regularly but from my point of view have a very shallow almost meaningless relationship that is held together by the social contract and moral obligation (to my sister mostly). It is what it is.

My DH once applied Wittgenstein in B&Q when we were trying to buy a wood chopper. Ultimately it turned out that Wittgenstein favours Screwfix.

Both DH and I like this sort of conversation (although I have my limits) but are aware our friends, neighbours, work colleagues and most importantly mothers do not and so are able to rein it in.

However I suspect we were unbearable in our twenties. OP has to wait it out.

I found this post quite upsetting and depressing. I think deeply about things and find it massively life enhancing to be able to think about life and death things rather than just making mindless chit chat. I would hate to think people feel that they have to keep me at arm’s length because of the risk I might talk about something meaningful.

I ger that there’s a time and place and people need to be able to read when its appropriate and when it’s not. Some people need to learn that not everyone is ready for heavy discussion all the time. But the idea that “deep thinking” is inherently boring has really depressed me.

Please don’t signal to your daughter that you consider her conversations boring.

This is me.

I find mundane everyday conversations so dull. I just don’t see the point in the kinds of conversations you’re describing, eg what you said about tennis.

For example ‘I went out with Lottie and Millie, I wore the pink dress, she’s gotten engaged and her mum is doing well, think she’ll retire in Italy’

Just… why? I have no interest in giving someone a factual recap of my day or hear theirs, unless there’s a point, or an issue they’re struggling with/ problem that needs solving/ made them think about deeper things. If they went to an exhibition or read a book and wanted to deep dive into it, perfect. If they just want to say how much they love avo toast… No.

It’s not about what you talk about, but how. Superficial just bores me.

My mum’s intellectual in a hard job but wants to switch off in her spare time, look at pretty things and not think about the world’s big debates. To the point that she doesn’t understand many topics.

Used to try to engage with her in the way that I like to engage with people I have a connection with… it was so hard.

In the end I gave up. We just have a superficial relationship where she tells me what people are up to and I nod. Then I tell her my daily events and maybe send a cute picture. Not much contact.

Thankfully she has gotten into a couple of more serious topics now, particularly the environmental impact of overpopulation and overconsumption, and I love that I can have a real conversation with her. I love it, it’s brought us so much closer.

In all honesty it’ll be difficult for you to have a relationship with her, you’re just different people.

But is there something you’re interested in or passionate about at all? Do you like to think deeply about… I don’t know, art, fashion, sports, what goes into being truly great in it? Do you at least watch documentaries?

You could steer the conversation to a topic where you could keep up with her. I think she would be very happy and excited that she can finally talk to you.

She probably dreads the phone calls equally as she likely finds them mundane and switches off.

You both have got to make compromises to have a meaningful relationship

She sounds fabulous! I’m another one who struggles with small talk though, so I can see how it would be challenging for you if you’re the opposite. Unlike some other “deep thinkers” on this thread, I love discussing people and wouldn’t consider it a worthless or shallow - people are infinitely fascinating. Having said that, I don’t have the capacity for long, meaningful conversations at all times. Most of us have busy lives and simply don’t have boundless mental energy to expend on daily philosophical discussions.

OP, it’s quite obvious that your daughter is desperate to connect with you in the way she sees you connect with her brothers. Explain to her that you’re not able to sustain the types of conversation she likes to have but perhaps make an effort to be a bit more inquisitive and engaging yourself; ask her why she thinks or feels a certain way, etc. Maybe set aside some one to one time where you’re actually doing something - playing tennis instead of just talking about it, etc.

Well said Begonia.

There's a time and a place though? Many people can do both. Trying to engage your mum in the mysteries of existence when she wants to check you're OK is not reading the room, is it?

Omg you poor thing.

I was once at a kids birthday party where the mums discussed nothing but clothes, nails and hair for over an hour. I wanted to claw my face off, it was so boring.

They were very nice and they did try to include me and I did try my very best to feign interest.

But when one of them said to me "you know when you buy a new outfit but noone comments on it so you take it back...." And I almost got up and left. I couldn't have related less.

There is a level between small talk and navel gazing.

I find deep philosophical talk all the time to be smothering. It makes me feel suffocated.

It’s not boring not to want deep conversations all the time. I grew up in a house where everything was over analysed and discussed to the nth degree. I found it intrusive. I avoid at all costs now.

Perhaps that’s how her daughter likes to connect with people and it is the OP that’s not ‘reading the room’?

To be clear, I don’t really think that. I am trying to point out that there is no right or wrong here. They could easily meet in the middle somehow.

Oh god I think this might be me.... Introverted and love deep connection. Chit chat and small talk makes my skin crawl. I dread ringing mum because she will tell me everything she's eaten that day and if we meet for a meal, all she talks about is the food in everyone's plates and a long story with no point about an acquaintance I've never met. I find it almost painful.

However I agree with PPs who have said that meeting people where they are is a life skill and I do manage it with other people - I can make pleasant small talk with colleagues etc. There's something about my mum chatting away I find especially triggering.

Do you think people who make ‘mindless chit chat’ can’t think deeply?

’Chit chat’ is actually wants sustains the world. It’s about making connections.

I can think deeply. I just don’t want to talk about it much.

💯

I think it’s being on the spectrum of autism. My dd is the same ( but without the qualifications). Conversations are heavy. It’s the inability to see that the other person is not enjoying the conversation. I tolerate it more now I know it’s something she struggles with.

I went and read on my Kindle in a similar situation. One of them came over to check I was OK!

Look, it's not like people fall into 'deep thinker' versus 'vacuous smalltalk' categories is it?
Posters here are being quite simplistic. For most of us it's not one or the other.

I have a tshirt my daughter got me that says "Warning! May talk spontaneously about Economics" so I'm sure I've been guilty of this. I wouldn't continue with someone who visibly/audibly had no interest though.

Does she volunteer for a political party. ? She must. They would love her intelligdnce and foresight. You are lucky. Please remember that.
I work in a deprived school full of teenagers who are unable to speak properly and have limited life chances .. what you have is incredible.

And I find this thread depressing because so many people on it think that anything less than a deep dive into a subject is vacuous and meaningless, and means that anyone weary of a long deep and meaningful conversation is boring and stupid.

There is a whole lot of space between a deep philosophical discussion and 25 minutes about someone's trip to Tesco, which many posters are refusing to acknowledge. And with regard to the OP, they are not for one moment acknowledging that the OP is equally entitled to have a conversation that she can enjoy.

There's a stunning amount of arrogance here.