I dread phone calls with my deep thinking daughter

[Isthatmyleopard]

My daughter is in her mid-20s and an incredibly deep thinker, she studied philosophy, religion and ethics and a MA in philosophy, she is considering a PhD. She was baptised/first communion as a child but we've had little engagement with the church lately, she however has returned, goes to mass often but not weekly. She is incredible, and I am very proud of her, but she never seems to be able to approach a topic lightly. It makes me dread phone calls as seemingly the most basic conversation can be turned into philosophy, theology or sociology. She isn't forcing a belief on me at all more so she is inquisitive, the adult version of a toddler who can't stop asking why and loves to play devils advocate, or have deep conversations about a totally abstract topic. In particular she loves to discuss how different philosophical schools of thought intertwine or compete with religion, the theology of various Christian denominations and the roots of breakaway churches/schisms. I often ask for a lighter phone call just about her life as she has friends and is social and sporty, but after a brief overview it always goes into ... and we spoke about this, followed by her asking questions on my thoughts on the topic. Even discussions about books go far deeper than I can handle. She also does it with sport, we both enjoy tennis but I can never just comment on a match without it turning into a conversation on the sociology of women in sports, the psychology of competition etc.
All that's to say I find it exhausting, if she were just sharing her thoughts I wouldn't mind so much, but it often comes with lots of questions such as what are your thoughts? Why do you think that?

Today we met for lunch and she told me it makes her sad I don't show the same interest in her interests as I do her brothers or call her as often, I explained why and that her brothers are more content with small talk so I find calling them requires less mental energy, she apologised and said she doesn't know how to turn off the deep thinking. She has a long term boyfriend who seems to be interested in the intellectual sparring so I'm not sure why she is so keen to get it from me.

AIBU to find this exhausting? How do I handle it before it damages our relationship?

Oh god my ds is exactly the same and it drives me mad. I'll be happily watching 'Below Decks' or 'Real housewives' or some other mindless but watchable drivel and I find myself being asked about my thoughts on the development of the Third Reich..I feel your pain!

I definitely agree that this is a social skill that she needs to learn. We all need to be able to adjust our communication style to meet the needs of the audience or the situation. Plus she should be able to pick up on the cues that you will be demonstrating that indicate that this conversation isn't working for you. If she's oblivious then she's either very self centred or ND. If she's not oblivious but carrying on regardless then she's really quite arrogant to feel that her need for intellectual debate trumps your need for a more general "catch up". My DC are younger but I consider it important that I help them to learn to read social situations and engage with people appropriately. We often have in depth, intellectual debates but I am also happy to tell them that it will need to wait for another time because I'm tired from work or want to concentrate on the TV show I'm watching. They can't demand my full attention when ever they want it.

Another vote for ND, she only wants to do ‘big talk’ where you want ‘small talk’ I also live with this.

It’s hard to vote without knowing how much you participate in her side of the conversation. Is she asking you a lot of questions in an effort to find something you can connect on? If you’re constantly brushing her off with “it’s not something I’ve thought about”, maybe she’s trying to find something you have thought about. She’s trying to learn more about you and your opinions on the world than what you watched on tv last night.
If you find the conversations too abstract, could you talk about something more concrete like sharing memories or life experiences that have been significant to you?

I can see how it could be exhausting, especially at the wrong time, but I also think you should be very flattered that your intelligent daughter wants to discuss these things with you. They are central to her life and she wants your opinion - she values your insights and believes they matter.

This is so different from many young adults who dismiss the views of anyone over about 35 as irrelevant old-people stuff (especially parents’ views!)

My only suggestion would be maybe to speak less often so you get a chance to gather your own thoughts in between. But whatever you do don’t push her away.

Just tell her you are very superficial and what does she think of your star sign and how many minutes does she cook spaghetti.

i-

Conversation is such an art, with listening being the key. There’s absolutely no room for you to feel listened to here in the sense of what you would like to discuss so no wonder you feel exhausted. Hopefully this will improve with age. It’s great that she’s so enthused by life. Here’s hoping 2026 brings less Alan Watts & more Alan Carr.x

I would use your tennis example as a template for what she is doing wrong in conversation and go from there. Illustrate how you do absolutely try to engage in shared interests with her but also how it is entirely possible to have a long convo about tennis without getting philisophical.

I'm like your daughter and find small talk unbearable. I live for meaningful conversation!

I really feel for your poor daughter! And this thread is terrifying with the number of normies who can't handle anything beyond an entirely contentless conversation. Thinking is boring and exhausting. It's a good job democracy is in its twilight years as we are not well suited to this form of governance 😂

Honesty is the best policy here. If the person who loves her more than anyone (you!) finds her a bore, you’d better believe that others do.
We owe it to our kids to let them know when they’re being a pain.
I’d honestly set a timer for such chat, and then cut it dead!

Who says it’s contentless?
Honestly, how pretentious!

So conversation falls into either one of two categories; Deep and Worthy or "pointless"?

Your post makes you sound so pompous.

My aunt got a degree in Medieval French from Oxford and is a cast iron intellectual, but she is also hilarious and enjoys talking to all sorts of people on any level. She's always had her intellectual circles to indulge.

She's very old now, but I have a lovely memory from my early teens when I told her I'd fallen in love. "How marvelous!" she enthused, "girl or boy?"

Faith in the future of humanity restored. Major big up to the emotionally intelligent daughter who wants to understand the perspectives and thought processes of the people who raised her, and has little time for the trivialities of life. I'd be so proud of her.

Yeah, this doesn't make you sound as smart as you think it does. I'm an ND Cambridge grad with a PhD and working academic. I've still learned to listen to my family and friends talk about things that are important to them. Because I live in a society.

It's quite clear from the majority of replies here that is what people would rather talk about. Exchange a few banal pleasantries and be done with it. You're just bristling because you don't want to hear it.

Crikey where do you deep thinkers hang out, I would love to come and meet you. I am surrounded by people whose main conversation is as shallow as a puddle. A friend tells me me about her trip to Sainsbury’s and how she makes fish pie every single time we meet.

Yes you've already told us, well done.

She is listening. Deeper than anyone else it seems. The OP hasn't said she doesn't listen, but that she wants to go deeper into the matter than the person who brought it up is actually prepared to. It seems the desired response is smiling and nodding. That's what society wants.

Small talk makes her feel the way you do about deep thinking. No amount of ''meeting in the middle'' resolves this. Academics are academic. It's the nature of the beast.

I'm like your daughter and I find most people pretty boring after, usually, quite a short period of time. They say the same things over and over, and echo each other. I'd rather be alone with my thoughts than spend time on "light conversation".

Maybe it would be good to point out to her that actually, she's now had years of training and practice in this kind of thinking so it comes easily to her, whereas you haven't so as much as you find it interesting, it takes more of your mental energy and is a slower process as you're having to consider topics that you've not thought about before (unlike her, who is having to think about them every day as part of her studies).

@IamtheDevilsAvocado

Re: "Can you say... Daughter I love you more than anything! We are so proud of you.. But we spin in different worlds..."

It sounds like the OP has already tried that kind of approach though, don't you think?

I'm like this, not ND just quite philosophical by nature, and I find talking to my DF and other family members exhausting because small talk is so dull and unsatisfying, especially as it's mostly about medical conditions (which isn't as a result of getting older - it's always been like this) and I don't enjoy gossip. As a result I hardly speak to them and am fairly certain they all find me pretentious and aren't the least bit interested in anything I'm interested in, so in your shoes I would try your best to stay engaged with your daughter's preferred communication style or you risk alienating her and making her think you find her annoying

I’m probably a little like your daughter. I go into deep dives about things I find interesting & yet whenever I discuss these I see people switching off & then I revert back to small talk that I find a little boring. Discussing the same topics again & again. What’s so & so doing, what’s happening in im a celeb (a show so repetitive I can’t believe people aren’t bored yet) the news is depressing etc. maybe she isn’t the bore, maybe you are. Maybe there’s more depth to her character & she likes to analyse & find more meaning in the mundane

It sounds like she wants to hyperfocus on her special interest. As her mum, you can gently push back; she needs to know that different types of conversation are appropriate for different settings. Reassure her that her work/research is interesting, but that an important social skill is being able to have a reciprocal conversation with topics the other person would like to discuss.