I dread phone calls with my deep thinking daughter

[Isthatmyleopard]

My daughter is in her mid-20s and an incredibly deep thinker, she studied philosophy, religion and ethics and a MA in philosophy, she is considering a PhD. She was baptised/first communion as a child but we've had little engagement with the church lately, she however has returned, goes to mass often but not weekly. She is incredible, and I am very proud of her, but she never seems to be able to approach a topic lightly. It makes me dread phone calls as seemingly the most basic conversation can be turned into philosophy, theology or sociology. She isn't forcing a belief on me at all more so she is inquisitive, the adult version of a toddler who can't stop asking why and loves to play devils advocate, or have deep conversations about a totally abstract topic. In particular she loves to discuss how different philosophical schools of thought intertwine or compete with religion, the theology of various Christian denominations and the roots of breakaway churches/schisms. I often ask for a lighter phone call just about her life as she has friends and is social and sporty, but after a brief overview it always goes into ... and we spoke about this, followed by her asking questions on my thoughts on the topic. Even discussions about books go far deeper than I can handle. She also does it with sport, we both enjoy tennis but I can never just comment on a match without it turning into a conversation on the sociology of women in sports, the psychology of competition etc.
All that's to say I find it exhausting, if she were just sharing her thoughts I wouldn't mind so much, but it often comes with lots of questions such as what are your thoughts? Why do you think that?

Today we met for lunch and she told me it makes her sad I don't show the same interest in her interests as I do her brothers or call her as often, I explained why and that her brothers are more content with small talk so I find calling them requires less mental energy, she apologised and said she doesn't know how to turn off the deep thinking. She has a long term boyfriend who seems to be interested in the intellectual sparring so I'm not sure why she is so keen to get it from me.

AIBU to find this exhausting? How do I handle it before it damages our relationship?

I think this is what I wonder. What are people thinking about? It's like the lights go out in many people when they're not actually doing anything. Why is it so difficult to just shoot the shit with someone and offer a spontaneous response (with the caveat of 'I've never given this much thought before') it's like there's 2 types of mental gender here

She doesn't need to dumb down for anyone. Some people are highbrow and that's what stimulates them.

She shouldn't have to completely switch off and only engage in small talk, but neither should you have to constantly engage in deep philosophical conversations.

I like deep conversations but I know not everyone else does. I save those conversations for the right people and situations because otherwise it's just not enjoyable for me. It's also really important for an adult to learn to read the room and adapt conversations so that everyone can participate.

OP I agree with encouraging her to do a PhD if she can find the right topic, she'll be surrounded by similar thinkers and can spend all day in deep discussions because it's basically part of her training. That then leaves room for less intense conversations with friends and family who don't share those interests.

I suspect she'll struggle with in academia when the Overton window is basically an arrow slit, but at least she'll be around people she'll be able to have more satisfying conversations with

But equally nobody should be forced into having her kind of conversation if they don’t want to.

I personally like a mixture - as long as the deep thinking is about something I’m actually interested in. But often one person’s special interest ISN’T interesting to anyone else. Not saying OP’s DD is ND at all, but the incessant talk about special interests that aren’t interesting is one of the reasons why I’ve left all autism groups I’ve ever belonged to.

No she isn't. It's not listening if you keep changing the conversation back to your own interests and perspective, which is what OP describes. I know, because I used to do it myself. I had to put the work in to change and actually learn to listen and respond appropriately.

I find this really sad. You show more interest in your sons, your daughter has noticed that and been brave enough to share it with you and you have bluntly told her that it's because you find their conversation easier, in other words that you find a problem with the way your daughter talks. Your daughter then apologises for the way she talks and you come on an internet forum to say how much you dread conversations with her. Poor daughter. I hope she is able to afford years of therapy, she is going to need it.

As someone who did a PhD in a similar subject, I can say that if she does that, by the time she finishes she will have bored herself, and is very likely to lighten up. She will likely learn to keep her thoughts on whether Wittgenstein’s theories can be usefully applied to Midsummer Murders to herself. It’s the equivalent of a child’s overwhelming enthusiasm for dinosaurs, and will probably mature into something less intrusive.

Ok so I would consider going one of two ways (or a mix of both)
you could plan say a weekly phone call for one hour and for that one hour a week you will talk about her interests.
Or you could be honest during the phone call and say actually I’m struggling to answer your questions shall we change the subject?

My Dsis went through a philosophical phase but was actually very difficult to debate with as she only saw her view. I think eventually She realised that she was annoying people plus I guess she got out of the student phase.
Your dd does need to learn that she can’t control the direction of every. Conversation

She does sound like my autistic son though.

I was like this with my dad and he could hold his own back at me 😄

Maybe go for a walk and coffee while you're having these conversations so its less intense

Is there any topic that you think deeply about? If so, tell her you can talk about that.

She needs to develop her social skills.
She can do that with you. Regular meet ups / phone calls where you stick to basic chit chat and stop her when she gets into something heavy, and reset.

People need to be able to just chat, if they can't then they are at a disadvantage, socially.

Sure. But she will find that her social circle is very narrow and that people who prefer a more relaxed and easy going conversation avoid her. That may include her close family. I personally want my children to have the understanding that social interaction can be on many different levels to allow them to develop a variety of friendships and experiences. If OPs DD is only willing to engage at a "highbrow" level and is happy with the consequences of that I am sure that's fine. Its a shame for OP though.

No, that is not what the OP describes at all. Read the posts. The OP describes her daughter as an "inquisitive toddler", constantly asking why. Why OP says several times that her daughter is seeking deeper engagement. She's conversing, she's not stuck on transmit. It's the energy to respond and offer her own input the OP is finding difficult. I've been trapped in many many painfully boring conversations where the speaker is in full broadcast mode and couldn't care less what my response or thoughts were on any matter let alone ask. Her daughter is desperate for connection, one which she sees come so easy between her mother and brothers. This is very sad. She's saying "talk to me" not demanding that the OP listen.

That might have been what you were guilty of but that is not what the OP is describing. She describes her daughter as having friends, a social life, sporty, with a boyfriend. I think if you listen you'll hear a girl who is aware on either a conscious or at least preconcious level that her Mum prefers her sons. And if all you have is a phone call, the only way to connect is through a meaningful conversation. The quality of connection through banal chitchat is limited surely?

This thread is thoroughly depressing. What a society of dumbed down zombies we all are.

Oh I feel you. I would a million times rather be talking to OP's daughter than these light topic rambling people. It just makes me feel empty and that I lost time in my life I will never get back. Becoming a bit antisocial these days because I just can't be bothered.

You’ll do her a great kindness if you help her recognise that she’s going too deep, unless you’re her sage space and ult only person she does it with (other than the bf).

My daughter did philosophy at university and is exactly like this. Thankfully she has now found a boyfriend and they talk like you describe all the time and finally me and ds are no longer needed to hear these deep thoughts 😂.

Lucky you. My autistic son only talks about his video game and prank videos. No interests whatsoever. If you try to talk about anything with him he screams. Utterly depressing.

I think she sounds wonderful and I reckon I would get on with her very well.

You also have to realise though, for people that think the way your daughter does, small talk is probably just as draining to her as the deep chat is to you. I do get it, I like a deep chat but try to avoid it with people I don’t think would appreciate it. But all that happens then is they fill the space with small talk and gossip and that really drains me. There has to be a happy medium.

Its about time and place.
It's not always appropriate to dig deep into the meaning of life. Like it or not, small talk is an important social skill. It's what humans do instead of picking bugs off each other. It isn't and shouldn't be an either/or situation.

People need to know when it's a chat about the weather interaction and when it's a philosophical discussion situation and if they can't do both or tell the difference, they are at a disadvantage.

It's a phase of adolescence that many go through (and thankfully, grow out of). I think it would be kind to keep making it clear to your daughter that you, like most other people, do not feel comfortable having this level of conversation all of the time.

Obviously there is a place for philosophical debate. But she needs to be encouraged to compartmentalise her interests and confine these discussions to meet ups with peers or the appropriate friend group or academic setting.

That does sound exhausting!
DS likes to talk about his degree subject but I do find it quite interesting so it’s fine. If he sees me glaze over he knows he’s gone too far!!
It does sound like she should do a PhD if she’s that intellectual as she needs the stimulation.

I think the thing you need to do most of all is reassure your daughter that you love her deeply, and make a special effort to spend 121 time with her. She's told you that she's noticed you prefer your sons. How much must that hurt? And what a brave lassie to have told you. You are her Mum - she only has one and she's reaching out the best way she can. My (probably autistic) DS gives me the daily computer gaming news - it couldn't interest me less as a topic, but my DS is talking to me, so I'm listening!

Could you maybe go out and do something together so you have that to talk about? Or get one of those card games with conversation question prompts - some of which are serious and some of which are light/funny?