AIBU - Adult children and financial help.

[VIOLETPUGH]

On the back of a recent threat regarding treating adult children differently this is my story.

We have 3 kids, 2 are in secure relaltionship, both themselves and their partners having well paid jobs and both have 2 children. Our other child, is a single parent, 1 child, with no other support other than us, her parents, (the child's father, and paternal family are not involved at all, their choosing). The 3rd child is hard working but a low paid job. We supplement our 3rd childs life, she doesn't go out ever, doesn't drink and doesn't smoke. We help with heating bills, clothing my grandchild, days out, holidays, activities. We do this as we don't want our grandchild to do without the things my children and her cousins have. We will not change, and will continue as along as we can help them. We also have this grandchild a lot more than the others. There is a little jealousy from one of her siblings, other one understands why and has no issues. Financially we cannot afford to give the others the same, and they do not need financial help.

So AIBU ?

This

She's supporting someone who seems to really need a hand and there are times in families where some kids struggle and others don't. I've been that person - either out of work or in very insecure work and my mum helped me when my brother was working full time and had a partner that was working full time

There was no animosity - if not for my mums help I would have massively struggled -I was living on 317 pounds a month at this point

I understand what you're saying. For me it's not fair. My opinion.

I've posted elsewhere in the thread. I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. I only have one sibling but for a few years I was in very insecure work or living on universal credit while my brother was working full time and living with a partner who was also working.

My mum helped me out at points - I would have struggled badly otherwise. But she helped him too - she gave him money towards a car when he passed his driving test.

He doesn't resent me at all - and when I was working full time and he was a student I used to pay his TV licence and give him money - he's been out of work in the past himself and he knows what it's like

It's your money - and you are helping someone who needs it - and your grandchild. You're not paying for them to go to the Bahamas. You're helping with heating bills

Well all I can say is - I hope some people aren't in the position I was in at that point - and as I've said elsewhere - when I was working full time I helped my brother out when he was a poor student. He knew exactly the position I was in -and when things were better for me money wise a few years ago due to some events that I didn't anticipate - I gave both him and my mum some money - because I had it spare and I appreciate them both

My mum also gave my brother 2k towards a car when she retired - and she was happy to do that. He wouldn't have taken money from when her was working full time - and I only accepted money from her when I was desperate - and haven't needed to for years now

Sometimes life gets in the way and it can be very hard for people on the bare minimum. I'm also single and I have never lived with anyone who has been earning - it's hard running a home on one wage unless it's a really good wage and it's even harder when you're on the bare bones of universal credit

The bulk of what you are actually doing is to help your grandchild so they have access to activities that your other kids can afford for their kids. Plus heating bills

Fuel poverty is tough -been there.

Hmm this is where in my situation it becomes unfair. Heating is a basic essential yes. But paying for clubs is where it becomes tricky. My parents pay towards and take my niece to swimming and gymnastics when they pick her up for my brother (other nights they go straight home). I have two children and cannot afford for them to both do multiple clubs - they both do scouts as that is low priced compared to other clubs. I feel that once you start getting into paying for extra curricular you should help towards all the grandchildren.

This is very glib statement. My ex gives hardly anything I have friends who are single due to being widowed, or have been left in enormous debt, or the ex has vanished or is in prison or not working etc

I think this is a difficult situation and I think you are trying to hard to help and I can see the motive. Your single parent child is clearly not spending it up! Could you invest in their career - more long term eg degree to help their earning potential.

I don’t know if explaining my situation might help ?
DH and I have combined a few children between us, my youngest sees his father from time to time but he doesn’t contribute really. DC1 lived at home and now lives independently- he lived rent free until 25 and we have had various conversations over recent years about him paying more towards family stuff. Eg he took it as we would pay for everything holidays, meals out and takeaways and he never paid for a coffee. He now out earns us and we have put a stop to the free loading - as it just isn’t fair.
We have other children at university and yes we pay for accommodation they are in hall of students houses etc - eldest DC doesn’t see this as fair - however he didn’t want to move out or move away or go to university away and left university debt free. The other DC we pay for their phones and accommodation whilst they are at university but that’s it. However their money mindset is different both work in retail part time jobs and both offer to pay for shopping etc

Eldest DC is very very money oriented and for example earns well but gave DH a book from a charity shop for Christmas and gleefully told him how much it was, it did raise an eyebrow but it’s the thought we have always said that. He paid £15 tops for everyone’s present - and literally rubbed his hands in glee like Mr Mean but we get this maybe be him or his ND or other and we can only encourage him gently out of it.

We can not compare like with like as all of our children are ND. Eldest DC moaned when he moved out about the cost of everything and then we discovered DH was still paying his phone bill and we stopped it / number 1 complained that 2 and 3 got their phones paid. We had paid his phone bill for nearly 10 years!!! We countered that his phone, accommodation, food, bills had been paid up to the age of 25 and phone to the age of 30! By 25 he had £50 K in the bank a highly privileged position. We also gifted him a large amount of money to buy.

Both 2 and 3 are at currently university doing 5/6 year courses so 1 complained this wasn’t fair. But DH & I had a frank conversations that we can’t be completely fair and equal. We just can’t. 2 and 3 are likely to be highly very highly paid / so will out earn 1. But we only paid accommodation.

Being a single parent is tough - same outgoing and half the income at least so yes I would support and invest. Because DH and I also believe we can’t take it with us. Our adult children 2 and 3 are likely to out earn 1 and we can’t compensate for that. Our eldest (and all our children - we have 4 are ND) is least likely to spend a penny, he has limited friends and social life and instead we invest time with him - listening to his moans and current intense topic of conversation, encourage skills such as volunteering etc we try to help him to do personal growth.

Having also been a single parent I can not express the total isolation you can feel. It’s not just 1/2 the earning of the others - she has the same out goings let’s say outgoing are £2 K and her income is £2 K and your children have an income of £4K and outgoings of £2K all of a sudden you have an extra £2K to save and earn interest, bulk buy (cheaper), more down time cinema etc to relax, and you get 50% of your free time on your own / so you get downtime. Your single parent daughter gets no down time.
It is not comparable.

So I would ask her if she wants to do a degree or training you can fund. I would do wrap around care from work or whatever for her (I’m semi retired) of your gran child and I would yes pay for extra absolutely - you can’t take it with her and until your a single parent you don’t get it. We have gifted DC1 money to buy a flat and we probably won’t have to do as much with 2 and 3 but will have paid for more uni, so we are trying.

We are going on holiday in the summer and all the children are coming. DH and I will pay 80% and DC1 will pay 20% (his share) DC 2 and 3 won’t pay for flights or accommodation but will pay drinks and ice creams when out and we have told DC1 he needs to buy some meals out - he is getting an expensive holiday and his own room. It’s all the little extras such as airport parking DC1 won’t consider and deliberately try to avoid but slowly he is seeing the experience is not just about money. DC4 is a teenager but has already offered up his pocket money. But you get my drift - in my mind DC1 will never be happy and we can’t treat them the same.

We are aiming and are in a position to try to assist all of them to buy a home and recognise we want and need to offer load money to avoid inheritance tax.

The OP has said that her other two adult kids have full time jobs and have partners who have full time jobs and can afford the activities. She's helping her daughter because she can't - why should the mum pay for all the grandkids? She doesn't have obligations to do it for any of the grandkids - she's doing it obviously because her daughter is single and in a low paid job while the others have partners and better jobs.

She would be paying for five grandkids in that instance

I think the key here is, is this truly a temporary situation. Or has OP planned for permanent help, when the daughter can and will no doubt improve the situation. Especially if she must, and financial support from OP is gradually minimised. The father should be pressurised to support his child.

OP likely doesn't have enough in pension etc to be affording this subsidising her daughter with no end date set.

The lopsided attention to some grandchildren, and some children, will and probably is causing issues, hence OP posting.

I'm a daughter, and I'm a parent.

I've seen some be purposely 'helpless ' in order to get attention and then play victim. I know this isn't the case here. But if a deadline isn't set, permanent reliance might become the norm, at your retirement cost. Not to mention siblings understandably being upset at the ongoing favouritism.

I know that favouring one child long term causes issues, and those who've sacrificed and not asked for help become understandably upset at the imbalance.

The father should be supporting his child and I'm not trying to suggest that there aren't absent fathers who provide for their kids. There are. But it can be ridiculously easy to opt out of paying child support - particularly if you are self employed and there's the potential to say you are poor and can't afford to pay when you can

I've seen posts from women recently on social media where they have been awarded sums like 10 quid a month from the CSA

My mum had a friend who's ex was a GP, he was self employed - he did locum work as well and as soon as they split he went off sick to avoid paying for their two kids. He eventually had to pay but got away with paying nothing for quite some time

When people say the father needs to step up - people obviously mean well but some women get very little

The problem you have as well as the grandchildren themselves noticing the difference in treatment form you to them and their cousins is, is your daughter actually trying to help herself ?

That’s a question you need to honestly ask yourself. Is she pushing herself to do more and earn more and be better or is she coasting along letting you pay for clubs and holidays and her bills such as heating?

If she’s coasting what’s going to happen when her child’s grown so less UC and you’re no longer here?

Don’t store up bigger future problems where she’s relying on her child to support her once an adult or you are put in the situation where you feel you have to give her your entire net worth.

Also sometimes working parents use clubs as childcare rather than because they really want to put their child in a club. Don’t confuse the two.

The OP didn't say the daughter was on UC. She said that she had a low paid job. There might be a top up from the dwp but pretty sure the OP didn't say that in any of her posts

People fall in and out if love. Love cannot be guaranteed.

I do think more emphasis should be placed on the character and moral compass of a man before having children With him. The character will determine if he will be a good father.

My mistake most people on a low wage with children get Uc and if it’s bad enough op pays for her heating I’d expect it to be minimum wage which means she should be entitled to a top up. So if she isn’t claiming she definitely should.

Also from September all children who’s parents are on UC will get free school meals so again definitely worth applying.

You sound like supportive parents everyone's circumstances are different and at times 1 child will usually need more help than the others this may change as circumstances often do. You say shes in a low paid job which is understandable as its probably part time to fit around her child. She could do with maybe upskilling theres lots of support out there for low income single parents to get access to training to lead to better paying employment maybe as a teaching assistant to fit in around school holidays. So long as she doesn't have any more kids id keep on with the support youre giving one day she'll be in better position

Some people don't always show their awful side before they get married. In my mums friends case the relationship fell to bits after they got married - they had been together for a long time before and my mums friend actually left because he pushed her son into a door. He smacked his head and he refused to help him - and he's a GP.

He was also charged with a breach of the peace after he assaulted her in her new home. She was told by police the likelihood of him being convicted was very slim because of who he was in the community but he was

I really have zero objections to my dad refusing to pay for me until forced to -because the pittance he paid barely made a difference. The issue I have is that my mum struggled and he could have helped more because he has money. My dad has another family that he did support and acknowledge but that's up to him. He made his choices and my mum was and is a fantastic parent and person.

My dad was a good father to his son by all accounts but not to me and some people are like that - they'll treat their second family better than their first

Yes you're right. She should make sure she's getting everything she's entitled to. Absolutely

Also just to say OP. If you are in Scotland which I'm not assuming you are - if someone earns less than 25k a year in household income they can do a part time course. I've just finished an open University degree. I got it fully funded. There's similar schemes in Wales and NI. Unfortunately not in England -although I know a lot of English students who are doing ou degrees and fund it through a student loan - just incase the info might help your daughter or anyone else in that position

Sure. I get what you're saying. But imo if I have 2 children they all get the same financial assistance.

No favourites just because one is less financially savvy or makes unfortunate choices or makes choices which lead to penury

Both children get the same

The OP is clearly not going to change her mind about anything - which does make one wonder if her other children would bother raising the issue..

But one other thought I had on this is that I think helping a child get on their feet is one thing but long term dependency is another. In the OP's position, I would look to find the DD to retrain into something suitable not just subsidise her indefinitely

I wasnt less financially savvy and I didn't make unfortunate choices - with respect you know zero about me. I was in full time employment for three decades until a few years ago and then I was stalked and threatened for over a year and ended up with ptsd and was too unwell to work - and just as I felt well enough to work again and I got a job offer I had a triple leg fracture and couldn't take it up

My mum does not favour me over my brother on any level whatsoever. The fact that she gave him two grand when he passed his driving test would bear that out

She also helped him when a long term relationship broke down a couple of years ago - he moved back in with her for 18 months and he saved enough money for a deposit on a flat - he was completely grateful and she was happy to help him out

She's never favoured one of us - she's helped us both when we have gone through tough times..

Hopefully that clarifies

If you are an adult and expect your parents to fund your lifestyle, will you do the same for your own children? And how?

She's not funding her daughters lifestyle. She's helping her with heating costs and the costs of taking the grandchild to activities because the daughter is in a low paid job - did you actually read the first post?