To not like Grandad tickling grandkids??

[CrandyCrush]

Okay… I’m fully expecting to get flamed here. I’ve always got weird vibes about DH’s dad. Due to proximity, we don’t see much of him, and he has always made quite minimal effort with DC. However, DC are now 12 and 9 and he has started doing this thing where he comes over and tickles their legs (knee area). I don’t know why, but it’s making me uncomfortable, although the kids seem okay. I just find it weird for some reason. I obviously haven’t said anything to anyone irl because I have nothing other than a weird feeling.

Is it me? AIBU?

It is not a consent issue for the girls. They are not old enough to consent. The OP does not have to 'back up' anything she feels is inappropriate behaviour towards her children. Nobody was there to say "Mrs Hindley, I think that's a little inappropriate." Being a guardian means guarding, not saying 'Oh no, I'm sorry, I can't get involved in case I infringe on your bodily autonomy, however young you are."

Agree with all those who are against tickling.

While not everyone who tickles is a sexual predator, it's a well-used tactic of sexual predators (usually related males) to break down physical barriers and normalise unwanted touching. Especially when legs are targeted.

You have concerns, and their age is also a huge factor pointing to it being inappropriate.

A firm 'we don't do tickling' and physically moving them away should be enough. If he gets offended that's his problem.

A loving grandparent occasionally tickling a smaller child to make them laugh is not in of itself a red flag.

The difference here is that the OP’s FIL has only just started taking an interest in pre-pubescent girls and touching them around their legs. Nope. I’d be minimising contact and telling him bluntly to not touch the girls. Say that girls shouldn't be touched without consent and he shouldn’t be doing it.

My friend's granddad used to try and tickle her legs, but she kept stopping him as she didn't like it or feel comfortable with it. Years later, it transpired that it's how he started off with her older sister and he escalated to raping her. This was in the 1980s. He was never caught. Came out after he died.

My friend did not know what he was doing to her sister. She just knew it felt wrong when he grabbed her legs and started tickling them.

So many people on this thread have described tickling as the pre-cursor to increased predatory behaviour. It's a well-established technique.

The TW who ran Edinburgh Rape Crisis was reputed to have asked rape survivors whether they had orgasmed while being raped. That’s the only other time I’d heard of it.

Hi.

I think you and your DH are ok as the children are younger and they're tickling you back. Plus you're an active part of your grandchildrens lives.
OP said that this man has only been in touch with the girls now that they're older. He definitely shouldn't be touching a 12yr old and 9yr olds legs

Still makes you think about it though. My daughter in law is very much into discussing appropriate and inappropriate behaviour with the kids to make them aware which is good. It’s so different these days.
Luckily we have never experienced any abusive behaviour and hopefully our grandchildren never will.
I do remember as a child being warned never to go into one of my school friends house because of her dad. I didn’t really understand why at least kids are more aware and may be able to tell a relative if they’re uncomfortable.

Just thinking about how the tide is fortunately turning in favour of bodily autonomy for some - but is this taught actively in schools? I do think life skills & role playing all of this should be reinforced an introduced from the get go. Harder tho if not something that was necessarily instilled in you as a young woman & more something you learn through negative life experiences. There’s still the perception that asserting bodily autonomy & rights to consenting who touches you - is reserved for snowflakes. Yes obvs patriarchal rhetoric & the stuff used to keep us in our box - but how actively is it reinforced in education? I imagine now all adults/ care givers etc have to ask a child for consent if they have to touch them? Eg a doctor to examine etc??? Do they though in reality? I know there is a line between professional, clinical necessity & consent obvs. But so many innately people pleasing, fearful of authority, “good” girls may view someone asking to touch them as still something she “should” consent to. Anyway off topic a bit I know. Be interesting to hear others’ input who do have daughters.

I agree, the ‘tickling’ is a confusing facade, which will make it very difficult for the children to identify what is wrong or inappropriate in this, which is why the adults need to hold the boundary, it is not the responsibility of the children to do so. Laughter is also often an automatic response to traumatic distress. This behaviour is unnecessary, inappropriate, and concerning.

These sorts of stories are getting more and more prolific. Seems there's tens of thousands of 'wronguns' about these days ?! Talking generally, not necessarily about grandpa.

That's because there are a huge amount of people around who do inappropriate thing.
It's not something you put up with. No one wants to think a relative or relation or friend is attracted to children. Doesn't mean you ignore suspicious behaviour or hope it goes away on its own.

What you describe is not quite the same. The attention in this OP started later. My FIL is an involved ‘hands on’ dare I say FIL, I have no worries. He too would tickle my D’s but it naturally stopped as they got older. He is sensitive to their personal space.

I've always felt really weird about adults tickling kids, and thought it was just me. I wondered if I was depriving my kids of something by not tickling them, but now I think that I made the right call. We laugh, joke and connect in many other ways

Yes it is, from good touches and bad touches, PANTS rule, feeling uncomfortable, consent, personal space , tell,tell,tell, who the trusted adults are, helping children to identify their trusted adults etc.

I doubt any women has ever orgasmed whilst be raped. shocking thing to say.

OP, I worked with someone who used to tickle the knees of teenage girls (in a voluntary role where he had access to them, pre-DBS). He creeped everyone one out and we all hated him but couldn’t get rid of him because there was no proof. Then, suddenly, he disappeared with a ‘bad back’ and couldn’t help any more. A few months later we saw in the local press that he had been arrested as part of the dismantling of an online child porn ring and had gone to prison. Also, my DH’s sister was sexually abused by a close family member. It started when she reached puberty. That family member died in prison for his crimes. Protect those girls. Screw his reaction. I’ve seen the damage SA does and I’d offend anyone rather than risk my children.

Thanks for this- I suppose it’s up to the parents to keep reinforcing & modelling. Male fragility needs calling out just as much too & an awareness of it is used to silence young women & girls & gaslight us.

My dad used to do this to me all the time, it was his awkward way of showing affection (outward displays of emotion/love were not something he experienced growing up, so didn't do the same with me). It's harmless...unless there's other behaviour that concerns you?

Men tickle children because men like it - not because children like it. I’ve never known a woman who got a kick out of tickling children. I utterly hate it, it’s a control thing, it’s not funny, it’s not ok, and I’d cheerfully chop the arms off the men that laugh while they do it.

I was SA as a child, repeatedly, by a relative. He didn’t tickle, but I accept that my hostility and rage at men who use children’s bodies for entertainment may be skewed.

Well it's true, sorry to burden you with that knowledge.

It is indeed true and many women have felt a lot of guilt and shame for it. Posters telling you that they doubt you and that it’s a shocking thing to say really don’t help. It makes women who have been through it feel worse. By saying they doubt any woman has ever orgasmed while being raped is judging those it has happened to and only a step away from saying they must have enjoyed it, which I have seen said. It shows a lack of empathy, a lack of understanding of the human body and possibly a touch of misogyny.

Abusers are all like that! This is what they rely on - people not wanting to “offend” them or upset them so this is why they carry on being allowed to abuse in plain sight

English is my first language, but I had a very creepy uncle who would cuddle me and its made me hate cuddles and physical affection to this day

DH didnt receive hugs growing up at all so hes not affectionate, so its just not our way

You need to trust your gut on this.
Living experience here of trusting my gut and potentially saving myself from being sexually abused as a kid. Obviously back then I didn't really understand what this person was doing but as an adult I realise he was testing the waters on what he can get away with doing, like touching my bum or rubbing the tops of my legs when I was sat on his lap, luckily I was never left alone with him for any period of time. The final straw was when he had very little clothes on and tried to get me to go into his bedroom, i was upstairs playing with a dolls house and his wife was downstairs. But something in me made me realise this wasn't ok and I stopped going there as i felt confused. I was like 8-9 then, but who knows what could have happened. This was 30 years ago now.

Just to add to my previous comment. My neighbour never did anything more to me as in touch wise but it made me feel weird about being in a room alone with my dad and my uncle and I hated him for that. Looking back as a emotionally intelligent adult I think as a kid I was just confused as I didn't know the boundaries.
I can't call him a p..dophile but there was definate potential and you obviously don't want to imply your FIL is because it could and likely is completely innocent but at the same time the kids need to understand boundaries on what is and isn't appropriate, and just tell him your trying to teach that but they're getting confused so you'd just rather it all stopped.