School run and TOIL

[Mumguilt25]

I am 25, mum of 1 (DC is 8). Started a new job in August which is a step up — more money, more freedom and flexibility.

In my previous role I literally had to take my lunch break to cover the school run 🙄. New manager was really relaxed and said just do the school run and also take 30 mins lunch whenever (its an hour otherwise) which felt nice and relaxed.

She’s also agreed I can WFH 3 days a week and be in the office 2, so on WFH days it’s pretty chill.

Everything was going fine until I put in a TOIL request for 4 hours for extra work I did last week. She refused it, saying she appreciated the effort but that it’s “give and take”.

I’m feeling really annoyed by this. I didn’t choose to work extra hours for fun, it was work that needed doing. I also don’t see how flexibility around school runs = unpaid overtime?

AIBU to feel annoyed? We didnt discuss it beforehand.

I would agree. I don’t think anyone is this daft or this entitled. Plus isn’t it funny how OP knows MN “lingo” like DC, but then claimed not to know what “CF” meant? It’s “cheeky fucker,” and if any of this is true, OP fits the definition.

So 3x 90 min lunch WAH days,
and 2 x 30min or 2 x 60 min lunches from the office?

On WFH i take 30min lunch & school run 50-60min.

On office days 60min lunch

Since starting early august.

Did you take annual leave or make the time up for GP or school shows? If not you absolutely csnt ask for toil.

So to be clear, per week you are taking 1.5 hours of paid time off to account for the school run over three days? And you’re expecting to be able to claim TOIL as and when you see fit, despite you taking 6 hours a month from your employer where you are not working, but being paid. If I was your manager we’d be having a robust conversation and you’d be finding me a lot less flexible in the future!

Your expectations are very unreasonable, OP. Your manager is right - flexibility is a two way street. She lets you work from home 3 days a week and is effectively giving you a 1.5hr lunch break every time you are in the office = that's an extra hour per week that you're being paid for, which you don't work. (It's more free hours if you do the school run on WFH days and still take the extra 30min lunch.)

You either stick to your contractual hours and work out other childcare arrangements, or you accept the flexibility as offered. I know that times have changed, but 4hrs overtime per week is absolutely nothing, particularly when you're getting 2.5hrs 'free' per week. Unless you're working to rule, I am surprised you bothered trying to claim TOIL.

But do you then e.g. finish at 5:30 or start at 8:30 to make up for it?

Otherwise surely you are taking 1.5 extra hours of time off per week. I know that doesn't sound like a lot, but it is the equivalent of an extra 2 full weeks of leave per year.

That means you're getting 60-90 min additional time off per week. Not to mention GP / concerts. To ask for TOIL for two occasions of staying a bit late is outrageous.

What are your contracted hours of work? I would expect you to catch up on at least 30 minutes on the days when you do the school run.

Also, what are you doing with your 8yo after school? I don't imagine that your DD entertains herself, gets her own snack etc. from the moment you walk back indoors and should be at work.

OP I'd keep my head down if I were you! On WFH days are you the sole adult with dc? Lots of workplaces absolutely wouldn't allow that. You seem to be on a good deal, don't be petty over a few hours.

Surely the most sensible thing would be to stop taking so much time for lunch?

You are taking a bonus hour and a half off during wfh days. On office days just 30 minutes for lunch so you save an hour. This was you only owe 30 minutes a week. That can be easily made up with one late finish.

Ok so that means each week you get 3x 80-90min lunches to everyone else's 60min, and 2x 60min lunch. Which means you have 1hr - 90mins paid that you don't work. Every. Single week.

So if youve done 4 hours youve deemed overtime. 1 month you made up/almost made your hours?

I think you want the best of both worlds and you cant have it. If your current employer was as strict as the old one youd get the TOIL for the overtime, but youd also have to use your own time for school run. And based on your current explanation youd have a deficit that TOIL would go towards.

You rarely get TOIL and flexible working. I think youre being incredibly ungrateful and suspect you know YABU. Your own post drawers out how kind your boss has been to give you flexibility.. long lunches.. overlooks after the school run youll be working and supervising DC. I think youre lucky you didnt face consequences for the cheek of pushing for TOIL when your hours are short every other week

You are taking the mickey putting in a TOIL request when you are already getting paid for part of your school run.

Several people have asked, but you’ve conveniently ignored the question about your childcare arrangements for your 8 year old after the school run.

In light of your outrageous TOIL request, given all the time you’ve had for free since August, your manager may now be very interested in what those arrangements are, particularly as the majority of employers don’t allow people to look after primary aged DC (Covid was obviously an exception) when employees are supposed to be working...

I wonder when her manager offered the 30 minutes for lunch she meant it to be every day - and not just on WFH days, as OP has interpreted it - that would mean over the week she'd had roughly 5 hours of breaks.

If OP is effectively having 1.5 hours for lunch whereas every other employee (presumably) only has an hour, that's not going to make for a harmonious working relationship.

I could not in all conscience take a 60 minute lunch hour in the days I was in the office, I would have to take 30 minutes to some how make some of the time up.

She has snacks and watches tv when we get home.

6 - 6.5hrs of breaks a week and then WAH 3 days a week while her 8year old DC is watching TV after the 50-60min break to pick her up

So 3 x a week you have a total of 90 mins for lunch and 3 hours school run.
1 - what do you do with your Dc when they’ve been picked up and brought home? Who looks after them while you continue to work?
2 - what are your contracted hours?
3 - what time do you start each day?
4 - what time do you finish each day?

Agree!
The more senior you get the less clock watching all round.

This has to be a joke, right?! I would have killed for the flexibility your boss has given you so far!

What is your arrangement? I was told that employers have to be supportive to childcare etc

They don’t ’have to’ do anything. They certainly don’t have to let you have paid time off every day.

Is something wrong with you? After over 300 responses and over 90% of respondents telling you how and why you’re being massively unreasonable, how are you still asking these stupid questions?

Er no. Employers do not have to let you have time off to do the school run and to allow you to work whilst also supervising your child.

Some employers are flexible enough to allow this for older children (and 8 is probably borderline for being in this category), but others will insist that proper childcare is used.

Rude

No they don't, ultimately your childcare arrangements are your responsibility to make work around your job, rather than the other way around. They have to consider flexible working requests, they do not have to agree them. Some are very inflexible, your boss sounds better than most.

Sorry if this has been asked - where is DD's Dad in all of this? My employer expects me to share responsibility with DH. If my girls are sick, I can take 1 day but expected that my DH will do 2nd day. Sharing school holidays etc.