School run and TOIL

[Mumguilt25]

I am 25, mum of 1 (DC is 8). Started a new job in August which is a step up — more money, more freedom and flexibility.

In my previous role I literally had to take my lunch break to cover the school run 🙄. New manager was really relaxed and said just do the school run and also take 30 mins lunch whenever (its an hour otherwise) which felt nice and relaxed.

She’s also agreed I can WFH 3 days a week and be in the office 2, so on WFH days it’s pretty chill.

Everything was going fine until I put in a TOIL request for 4 hours for extra work I did last week. She refused it, saying she appreciated the effort but that it’s “give and take”.

I’m feeling really annoyed by this. I didn’t choose to work extra hours for fun, it was work that needed doing. I also don’t see how flexibility around school runs = unpaid overtime?

AIBU to feel annoyed? We didnt discuss it beforehand.

You’re taking the piss. You have a decent manager who is granting you an additional 20 mins every time you do the school run (50 mins plus 30 mins lunch). You can’t have it both ways.

Yes she let me go to gp and said to just update my diary, i didnt have to log it on the system. I had 3 x school concerts but I didnt need to make the time up because the week before I went to an evening meeting for our clients.

No i dont have to do the morning school run, my manager said that she expects me to start for 9am and thats fine.

Op if this is real then your manager is a dream- and you are a nightmare.

i manage forty people and am flexible about school runs - but i expect the work to be done and wouldn’t look kindly on your attitudes: the flexibility has to work both ways.

from this point on I would ask you to record your hours to ensure you are making up the time list in the school run.

You would ask them to do the work or make up the time?

Initially I would have expected the work to be done. However, given your attitude and the amount of time you are taking out each day I would ask the time. So u would expect you to work half an hour longer to compensate for the half hour school run. So a 5:30 stop if it previously had been 5:00pm.

I would also check your contract and make sure I was enforcing the requirements on flexible working. I work in a large company so I would be checking in with HR at this stage to protect myself - from you and from your colleagues who could say this is very unfair. I would document everything at this stage because you are showing signs of issues down the tracks

I would also be wondering who is looking after your kids after you’ve picked them up?

I manage a team and am fairly flexible (as my manager is for me) but I’d want to know what happens after the school run? Do you drop the kids somewhere? Or do you all go home? If it’s the latter then I assume you need to get them settled etc. do you make the time up in the evenings?

You have really shot yourself in the foot here! If you get the sort of flexibility that allows you to take time off during the working day for school runs and WFH regularly, the quid pro quo is that you don’t quibble over a couple of hours extra work either. The more senior you get the more you are expected to get the work done rather than working to the clock. Your manager was giving you that flexibility and you’ve refused to do your side.

Well strictly speaking you haven't built up any TOIL. For every day that you take an hour and a half 'lunch' when you're contractually entitled to an hour, you are a half hour short of your daily contractual hours. If you've built up an extra 4 hours then you can almost cover the previous two weeks' deficit...then what about the rest of the year!

OP please don't ruin this for yourself...you have a great deal here.

Sorry posted twice! Deleted.

I suspect she's shot herself in the foot and her boss will be watching her productivity rather more closely going forward. She'll be lucky to retain the flexibility she has.

I totally agree. I have this same flexibility from my boss, but I’d never dream of asking for time back like this. He gives me the flexibility to be a good mum, and a good worker. I’m happy to give back my time when I am able to, in order to keep this reciprocal agreement going. He knows he could call upon me at 10pm at night if there were a disaster that he needed my help with, and I wouldn’t be trying to claim that back.

If I were your boss I'd be giving you the TOIL and I would also be telling you that you were no longer able to take an additional 30 minutes for lunch, and that being flexible with the timing of your lunch hour was as far as I would be willing to go in future, given your own inflexibility.

And I would fully enjoy the ensuing eyeroll from you.

So what about the 2.5 hours each week where you do the school run you take 30mins every day of works time that you are paid for to pick your child up

massive home goal bringing this to her attention
I don’t understand why you can’t see this

But its only 3 times i do the school run as 2 times in the office.

You sound v immature tbh.
You said this job was a step up for you (more money & more flexibility), yeah?

Well then you need to step up to the job.

Once you reach a certain level of seniority / responsibility then you can reasonably expect a great deal of flexibility about how you spend your time so long as your work gets done. That means that you put in as many hours as you need to to get the work done.

Sometimes that means working extra hours over your nominal contracted hours. If, as in your case that only happens occasionally then everything is good, your manager is doing a good job of balancing your workload. If you find it's happening every week then you have a conversation with your manager about it.

What you are demonstrating loud and clear to everyone on here (and unfortunately to your manager as well) is that you are not mature enough to be trusted with this arrangement.

If I was your manager I would ask you to keep a daily timesheet noting the hours you worked and making up the extra 20-30 mins a day. THEN I would allow you TOIL for any extra hours worked (but only with advance agreement and for a specified reason).

Maybe this is a reverse? I can’t imagine anyone actually doing this.

If not… the TOIL you requested is 2 week’s worth of your really, really good deal. Count your blessings and stop being ridiculous

I thought that too…if not she is a major CF

That's still 2.5-3 hours a week every week, on your own admission. Therefore if you've only done it for two weeks you've had at least five hours out - so if anything you owe your employer at least an extra hour, and almost certainly more.

What if anything do you do to ensure you can concentrate fully on your work once your children are at home?

Your really not getting it so every single week you take extra 1.5 do in a couple of weeks it will balance out

honestly if. Were your manager this offer of school run in works time would be withdrawn

With the attitude you've now brought to her attention I'd be questioning your time management when out of the office and be stopping wfh.

Tossing it off even more because you "work" from home on two of the days when you take the piss with this school run entitlement isn't a thing.

Your boss has got your number now. Well done 😂

I had someone who worked for me who was like this.

She wanted compressed hours to get one day a week off - fine. But then she wanted to wfh more than everyone else “to be there for the children” (yr 6 and upwards), or go home early on her office days and “pick up from home” - if you want to be there for your children, do standard working days! Or be part time.

Then wanted to be wfh all during her son’s A Levels to make sure he worked - well no, if you want to stand over him, take some leave, paid or unpaid. Just being in the house won’t allow you to make sure he works will it? Oh no because we want a big family holiday when they’re over…

You can’t have it all ways!

Can you clarify:

• Your contracted hours
• how many hours you've worked over the last 4 weeks

Have you actually worked 4 hours more than your contracted hours or did you need to work those hours to make up for the time you were absent?

What I'm getting at is that you can't bill the company for extra hours if you're already short of your contract.