School run and TOIL

[Mumguilt25]

I am 25, mum of 1 (DC is 8). Started a new job in August which is a step up — more money, more freedom and flexibility.

In my previous role I literally had to take my lunch break to cover the school run 🙄. New manager was really relaxed and said just do the school run and also take 30 mins lunch whenever (its an hour otherwise) which felt nice and relaxed.

She’s also agreed I can WFH 3 days a week and be in the office 2, so on WFH days it’s pretty chill.

Everything was going fine until I put in a TOIL request for 4 hours for extra work I did last week. She refused it, saying she appreciated the effort but that it’s “give and take”.

I’m feeling really annoyed by this. I didn’t choose to work extra hours for fun, it was work that needed doing. I also don’t see how flexibility around school runs = unpaid overtime?

AIBU to feel annoyed? We didnt discuss it beforehand.

No they don't have to at all. Most people pay for afterschool club and work until 5/5:30. You are apparently under working by 60-90 minutes a week, so you should be doing around 4 to 6 hours extra every month, not just this one.

If you have flexibility just give yourself those four hours back with longer lunch breaks

Who told you that because its bs. You have the right to request flexible working they have the right to refuse. If they grant flexible working you still have to do the same number of hours you can just do them at slightly different times. You can't expect to get the pay for 40 hours a week but only do 38.5 per week as thats theft/fraud and can get you sacked for gross misconduct.
If you keep taking the piss you can expect to have to log every minute you work and explain why your away from the desk during your working hours and if there's a pattern of you not doing your contracted hours you can expect to loose all flexible working.
Time to give your head a wobble and start acting like a responsible adult and stop taking the piss at work

Please push this point with your manager. Say the things you’ve said in the OP and on this thread to her.

Come back and let us know how it goes. 😊

She already is and owes about 26 hours already after deduction of the 4 hours she did this week

@ForZanyAquaViewer may have been a little blunt in her phrasing, but she has made a very good point.

We are now 14 pages / 345 posts into this thread, and I reckon everyone is incredulous at your entitlement. 91% of voters have said YABU, but you haven't engaged at all with the point everyone is making.
You are obviously reading the posts as have replied to specific questions from posters trying to confirm if they have read / understood it correctly, but have not in any way acknowledged that you are being very unreasonable. Or even in any way tried to justify or explain your reasoning.

@Mumguilt25, please can you update to let everyone know if you understand why posters are disagreeing with you and think you are being unreasonable. You take at least 1 hour per week of working time to collect your child from school. Therefore, when you completed the 4hrs of overtime, it was reasonable that you should do this without TOIL.

Childcare is your problem, not your employer's & they certainly don't have to be supportive. It's your responsibility to have appropriate childcare in place after school if you are meant to be at work. How are you covering the school holidays?

Totally accurate. I foresee you losing this job.

By who exactly? A mate in the playground?

Are you going to wake up and acknowledge the 90+ percentage of people telling you the actual score?

What employers have to do is consider flexible working requests but they don’t have to oblige if it’s nor practical for the needs of the job. They absolutely don’t have to give you time off for 3 pm school runs if it’s not convenient - that’s what after school clubs or childminders are for.

What your employer has been though is more than flexible in 1) allowing you an hour off in the middle of the working day and then 2) allowing you 1,5 hrs off paid per week which is. 78 hours per year and then you have the audacity to claim back 4 hours of pay back from them - unbelievable! I’m surprised they kept their cool, they’re a better person than I am. If it was me, I’d rethink the whole arrangement since you’ve shown no gratitude that they’ve gone above and beyond for you.

You should have your daughter in childcare every day that your working hours extend beyond her school day. Doesn't matter where you are physically working.
I am an employer of 40 doing various shifts both on site and at home, not 9-5 office work, and many have young children. Without exception everyone organises childcare of some kind. Absolutely nobody expects to pop out of work for school run and pretend to be effectively working once children are there at home. We once got wind that someone wasn't logging on regularly on WFH days, repeatedly despite being warned, so her working pattern had to be changed to on site.

I think you meant to quote OP’s comment, but got mine by mistake.

Lol. You're so lucky to have a boss like this but you'll lose the job or at least the flexibility if you don't start appreciating it and acting like a responsible, respectful adult.

Is anyone else thinking a lot of the topics on MN at the minute are fake. It’s getting silly. No one could possibly be this entitled. Even after people point it out she’s still going strong. Can’t be real. And I say this as someone who has an 18month old. It’s abit of give and take with work but just no way would anyone expect what op did in the real world

School holidays and the post Christmas pre new year lul

Who told you that? Because they dont. They must consider "reasonable adjustments" but theres no obligation to agree them.

There is certainly no rule for paid time to go to school pick up, which you already know because your old employer told you, you must use your lunch for it. Some employers dont even offer sick pay, you just get statutory sick nevermind special leave for childcare. Legally they can refuse flexible working requests, they can make you take unpaid leave or annual leave for childcare emergencies.

Please tell me this is a reverse op?! I can't believe anyone is this entitled /clueless.

What happens in school holidays @Mumguilt25 ?

I’ve not read everything but I get the picture. You are seriously on thin ice here. I don’t know what your job is and whether you are paid by the hour or salaried. If salaried you are absolutely taking the piss and if I was your manger I’d sack you. I really don’t know what to say.

YABU OP. You get 1.5 hours of paid break a week over and above your contractual entitlement, and you claimed back 4 hours TOIL for a couple of late evenings? Lol.

I manage a team of 30+ people and let them take time out for GP appointments, school plays etc. In return, they work extra when on occasions when it's needed. TOIL is for travelling over a weekend or having to work because of an emergency on a day off.

They are not obliged to be supportive but many are, as they are decent. But this does not equate to 1.5hrs of extra paid time every week to do the school run/have break. It means accepting that eg you take your break at the school run time and not the usual lunch time break, or that you split your break and then start early/finish 30min later. It definitely doesn't mean taking 1.5hrs extra every week of Paid time and then expecting Toil at a low level (4.5hrs TOIL IS 3 Weeks of your school run/lunchn extra time over 1hr

It seems the OP takes an hour a day to do the school run despite only having 30 minutes to cover it, and has no childcare in place for the 8 year old once home, yet still expects to get paid TOIL for 4 hours of unauthorised “overtime”, furthermore is outraged her manager has advised it’s give and take. You couldn’t make this level of entitlement up!

Did anyone not note that OP is aged 25 and has an 8 year old? Maybe explains her lack of understanding of the workplace and her expectations?

Thank you. Il speak to my manager and make it clearer.