School run and TOIL

[Mumguilt25]

I am 25, mum of 1 (DC is 8). Started a new job in August which is a step up — more money, more freedom and flexibility.

In my previous role I literally had to take my lunch break to cover the school run 🙄. New manager was really relaxed and said just do the school run and also take 30 mins lunch whenever (its an hour otherwise) which felt nice and relaxed.

She’s also agreed I can WFH 3 days a week and be in the office 2, so on WFH days it’s pretty chill.

Everything was going fine until I put in a TOIL request for 4 hours for extra work I did last week. She refused it, saying she appreciated the effort but that it’s “give and take”.

I’m feeling really annoyed by this. I didn’t choose to work extra hours for fun, it was work that needed doing. I also don’t see how flexibility around school runs = unpaid overtime?

AIBU to feel annoyed? We didnt discuss it beforehand.

This is a good example of how flexible working is expected to work in your company.

You had to go to an evening meeting with clients. No one is sat there with a stop watch logging how many extra hours you were working.
Instead you get time off to go to 3 school concerts and it's considered "roughly equal".

You get to WFH 3 days a week and it's "chill" and you can take your time over the school run and still have a lunch break. No one is sat there counting how many hours you do.
In turn, if you need to work a little bit later the odd once or twice, you're expect to consider it "roughly equal".

This is how give and take works in a job. If you think you are doing more giving then taking, by all means raise it, or look for another job. But from what you've posted on here, you are getting a good deal. Would you prefer to go back to something like your old job where you have to count the school run as your lunch break (or possibly be not allowed to take time to do the school run at all)? That's your choice.

I think you may see this flexibility disappearing in the future if you put another toil claim in🤷‍♂️.

So 1.5 hrs then each week

The more I read your updates OP, the clearer it is that you're not making the step up in attitude required for your new role. The more senior you get, the more you're expected to organize your own time and take accountability for your work getting done. Your manager doesn't care that you put in a few extra hours, nor does she care that you take a few extra hours for school runs. You're running the risk of looking petty and immature with this TOIL request.

@Mumguilt25but you are missing the point!!!

In any case now you know how it works in your workplace. If your work is likely to take a singnificantly longer than expected discuss it with your manager before hand if you are expecting to be paid. in any case you neee to think of what your long term goal at this particular workplace is. Is it a career or just a job and are you poorly paid? Some would think this shouldn’t make a difference to the work ethic but I think it does make a difference to your efforts.

OP if you were one of my staff, I'd be tracking your hours now. If you fell below or worked over your contracted hours I'd be looking to pay you accordingly.
You've bitten the hand that fed and I wouldn't let you do that twice!

And who looks after your child when you get home?

Many people have advised you to be grateful and respectful of the flexibility you have. If it's not a written flexible working agreement, your manager could remove it at any time. If I were you, I wouod forget about the TOIL, get my head down and work extra hard to impress your boss to avoid loosing the flexibility.

I get a lot more flexibility than many others in my team, some gripe, but I have earnt it, I consistently step up and do extra, I have earnt my privilege, and have it formally in writing.

That’s still 1-1.5 hours a week on the school run, discounting the time taken from your lunchbreak, so assuming you’ve worked at your current workplace for at least a month you’ve already taken the 4 hours back. You haven’t said anywhere it’s a new job so in reality you probably owe them far more hours back!

Flexibility needs to work both ways, you can’t expect to be getting paid to do the school run for over an hour each week but then also claim back time if you occasionally need to work over your hours.

If my boss was letting me take 50-60 minutes out of my day at a fixed time to do the school run, I’d gladly do a little bit of unpaid overtime in return. If you want to be treated as a professional and have flexibility, the flip side is that sometimes you have to give and not take.

Sadly people these days seem to want all the perks of a profession/vocation but at the same time they will not do a minute more than what they are paid for or inconvenience themselves in any way to help the organisation. My boss used to give us a lot of flexibility but thanks to increasing numbers of piss takers, we are now all expected to work our agreed hours exactly unless agreed in advance.

Yeah I have been at my job 10 years and worked my way up. I do have more control over my time than the people I manage because I earned that right. I still work my full time but my boss is super kind and I flex around my daughter’s medical appointments, come in slightly early or late if needed and then I work until the job is done. I would never expect to fill a timesheet and he’d never expect to hear about it if I do a bit over a weekend or evening. If I was managing you I’d have a lot of questions and I’d likely tell you to work in the office more often as now I’m not entirely convinced you’re working at all (and yes, where are your kids after this long mid afternoon break?)

Watch out OP, you’re seriously on her radar now!

Offering a hand and having the arm bitten off comes to mind.

If I were your manager, I would ask you to record all your hours plus I would ask you to come back in the office 5 days a week. You are a piss taker and knowing that, I would not trust you.
I hope this is not true, its people like you who make it bad foe everyone else. You should also organise childcare so it does not affect your employment. You are si lucky to have this manager.

Are you trolling us @Mumguilt25 How could an adult be so stupid as not to understand that you need to work the hours you’re paid for?

it’s great that your manager offers you flexibility as a parent but you still have to earn your salary!

Is my understanding correct?

3 days a week wfh
2 days office based

On wfh days, you begin at 9am, presumably leave your desk about 3pm for a 3.30 pick up (you say it’s a 50min-1hr round trip), back at your desk for 4pm.

Do you then do another hour or so of work?

If you are adding that 30 mins in for lunch too, that’s 1.5hrs for

How do you pick up on your office days? Do you have to leave the office much earlier than 3pm or is it a similar distance away as your house - school?

My job and boss are really flexible, no problem with school runs (kids are older though) or appointments, caring responsibilities for my parents (prescription runs etc) but I’d only add a TOIL request if it amounted to more than a days’ worth of work.

OP, hopefully the message has been received here.

I think your manager handled this toil request incredibly gracefully, youre very fortunate. Shes likely putting this down to crossed wires (when in fact the reality is youre taking the piss)

I am incredibly flexible with my team, moreso than my peers are with theirs, but with that comes the knowledge that if i get the slightest whiff of pisstaking (late often, leaving early often, work not getting done) or as your boss termed it "no give and take" then its gone. No ifs and or buts. No school runs, no appointments, no early darts, no wfh, no carol concerts or sports days or whatever else. Sort it out in your own time and dont let it interfere with work, youve lost my discretion.

I hope for your sake you catch on quickly, because your manager will likely react the same way

I think she needs to keep her head down. At the very least her manager will be monitoring her much more closely and she probably won't be afforded so much flexibility in the future. At worst she could be at risk of being managed out if they need to lose staff.

No. No one is this ridiculous, and then there are OP’s responses, completely ignoring the math (OP is getting a MINIMUM of 1.5 hours of free pay a week, if she does a 60-minute school run and takes a 30-minute lunch).

Since August, roughly 20 weeks, OP has received 30 hours of pay she didn’t earn. Your coworkers who don’t have school runs and three Christmas concerts (wtaf?) don’t get an extra 30 hours of pay.

@Mumguilt25 , wtf. I hope this isn’t real.

OP, hopefully the message has been received here.

Sadly, @TesChique, no. I would say that, based on OP’s responses, the message hasn’t been received in any way, shape, or form.

So you’re getting paid for 1.5 hours per week that you are not actually working or around 6 hours per month, yet you don’t think you are being a CF to claim 4 hours TOIL for the month when you’re not entitled to it as you actually already owe them 6 hours for the month (plus the school event you mention being allowed to go to this month so more like the 10+ hours you owe them).

I wish Mumsnet would crack down on these fake posts. I agree with everything you’ve said. So obvious.

@HMW19061 OP seems to have attended 3 different school events in lieu of an evening meeting. That’s a pretty good deal as it is! OP seems oblivious to this being a good deal. I’m unsure if she is actually genuine. Surely nobody can be so out of touch?

You are taking extra time off so of course you can’t claim extra hours

To me toil is for exceptional stuff, evening events etc, not visiting off work. You have a great deal, show some willing and always agree toil in advance.