to think no one can define living as a woman

[funtimess]

if you are a biological man.

Or indeed define living as a man if they are a biological woman.

What is the definition, how do you define a person ‘living" as the opposite sex?

AIBU to think that nobody is going to be able to define this unless they resort to regressive stereotypes.

YABU - I can define this for you without using regressive stereotypes.
YANBU - You are right, you can’t define this without using regressive stereotypes.

I can't even define what it is to live as a woman as a biological woman.

I know what it is to live as me. I am a woman. I do not represent all women and could not begin to define what a woman is in any meaningful way beyond the biological.

YABU for starting yet another thread on mumsnet about this.

I agree with your point, but this has been done to death on here.

The only way to live as a woman is to be born female and grow up.
Anything else is reductive, outdated stereotypes.

Just like no one can define woman in a way that means some male people are women. 'Trans women are women' only works if you un-couple the word women from its actual definition and after years of asking no one has yet supplied and alternative meaning that doesn't rely on the idea that woman means people who say they are women.

I’m sorry, I’ve not seen any threads specifically asking about this phrase. It just gets said as though it has meaning or sense.

From gov.uk:

Evidence of living in your gender for the last 2 years
You’ll need copies of evidence to show that you’ve been living in your affirmed gender for the last 2 years.
Each piece of evidence should contain at least one of the following that matches up with your affirmed gender:

• a name
• a title, like ‘Mr’ or ‘Miss’
• a gender marker, like ‘male’ or ‘female’

There are no other specific requirements for this evidence, but try to find:

• evidence from different points over the 2 years, with roughly 1 piece of evidence for every 3 months
• at least one piece of evidence from the last 2 or 3 months
• evidence from a variety of different sources

The evidence can come from before you were diagnosed with gender dysphoria. Examples of what you can send in include good quality photocopies or photographs of:

• your driving licence
• your passport
• identity cards, like workplace IDs, student IDs, railcards, health insurance cards, library cards or supermarket loyalty cards
• letters from solicitors, accountants, doctors, dentists or employers
• bank statements
• payslips, P60s and P45s
• benefit letters
• tax letters and documents, including council tax
• credit reports
• confirmation letters that you’re on the electoral register
• student loan statements
• utility bills, such as internet bills
• rental agreements
• academic certificates and documents

The only way to live as a woman is to be born female and to survive to grow up to adulthood.
Nobody can change sex and anything anyone does to try and mimic the opposite sex is mearly pandering to outdated regressive stereotypes and yes I'm including cross sex hormones and mutilating surgeries in that, because its still a man wearing a costume trying to preform that mans idea of what it means to be a woman instead of actually being one going about her life as normal

So if I am a Dr and have my bills and driving license as Dr what gender am I living in?

It makes no sense.

It's Christmas week. Have a day off. 🙄

We all know that the only thing you need to prove you are ‘living as a woman’ is calling yourself miss, tick the female box on pieces of paper and have a feminine name.

All women know that none of those three means you are actually female and that legally being allowed to change your sex marker has a massive negative impact on the safe and fair participation of women in society in general. Some women don’t care though, so I am sure they will pop in soon to explain why mixed sex changing rooms, sports and prisons are excellent ideas.

Maybe changing from Dr John Smith to Dr Joan Smith would be enough. Or switch from Dr to Miss on documents without a sex marker (passports and driving licences have a sex marker).

More to the point why are we allowing people to falsify their passport and drivers licence at all let.alone before they have a GRC and a false birth certificate?
What other groups get to lie on legal identity documents?

I can - pure torture 😂 mostly caused by men and children

HTH

Lol, as if 😂 You must be brand new round these parts (or doing a faux innocent show)

Of course you are correct

Well it's all nonsense obviously (except, weirdly, nonsense that people in positions of power seem to believe in), but it's a three part test for a GRC. 'Living as' (two years of utility bills etc), medical evidence of gender dysphoria, and a signed declaration.

Maybe people are confusing 'living as' with the reasons that men develop the fixed delusion that they are women, and vice versa. Which is a question for a psychiatrist.

I understand why they try to disguise themselves as women: it's to persuade other people to play along.

I don’t understand, sorry.

You don't live as a man or woman. You are a man or a woman. Changing your name and clothes does not change reality.

I have no issue with cross dressing men. Just not in women only spaces.

Existing inside a female body. That's it. That's all. And no, a very tiny percentage of people affected by DSDs does not mean there is anything other than two distinct sexes and everybody belongs to one.

Anything beyond this is LARP. However sincerely done. And that's fine, but it should not mean legal paperwork can be falsified, or that women should be denied needed single sex spaces.

I’m finding this really offensive.

I asked a genuine question. You can either answer it or not.

YANBU
Gender stereotypes are the problem, but they’ve largely been adopted as the solution.

I despair that people are so much more stupid than I thought they were.

Women are important every day of the year.

It's a good question but I have to vote YABU because there is a clear - but boring - description on gov.uk.

Lots of people ask instead 'how can a man feel he's a woman, when he's never been one?'. But none of us knows what it's like to be someone else, anyway. Maybe it's just a categorisation error.

Or, there are other motives. April Ashley was a gay man who wanted to have sex with straight men, for instance.

I don't know why lawmakers had to get involved. It's caused no end of trouble.

Yes I don’t understand this silly response from BoxesBoxes either, op.

You could say that about every non Christmas related thread this week because it’s Christmas week.

People get very angsty if it’s not on the Sex/Gender/Feminism board.

100% this.

I also give being a woman… no thought? It’s just what I am. It’s like asking me to define what it’s like being right-handed. It’s not a “feeling”.