Baby ill from friend's toddler

[Biscuit94]

Hi all,

I have a 5 month old baby. Just over a week before Christmas my friend said she was up for Christmas and asked if she could pop round. She showed up on my doorstep with her toddler coughing and spluttering everywhere. I was surprised and thought maybe it was just a lingering cough, but she cheerily announced that he was always ill from nursery these days and walked straight in.

I understand that my baby is going to get ill and be exposed to all kinds of stuff, but why the hell would you do it just before Christmas?

Anyway, I came down with the cold a couple of days later, followed by my DH and then my poor baby girl on Christmas Eve. I thought she had gotten away with it as I am breastfeeding and thought maybe she had antibodies from me, but the poor little thing has been coughing and sneezing, struggling to sleep from the congestion and having more watery poos than normal :(. Absolutely gutted for her and even worse that it is over Christmas. Making sure to feed often, use Calpol and saline spray/a baby vapour rub. She slept on my DH for 5 hours last night and then me for another 5 as she is so uncomfortable lying flat in her bassinet.

I am so angry upset at my friend for not bothering to give me a heads-up/postpone/leave her toddler with his grandparents who she is staying with.

AIBU?

I think what most people find unreasonable is labelling your friend so negatively and insisting that you would never, ever do this because you're somehow morally superior.

She probably shouldn't have come, but when you're in the trenches of the six month cold you do basically forget that they have it. School and nursery policy is that they should stay away if they have a temperature or vomiting/diarrhoea, but otherwise they should be at school/can be at nursery. A snotty nose/cough isn't grounds to keep a child at home and so you carry on. This is what she's done. It's what many, many parents do. Because you have to, you can't stay indoors for six months.

She should have thought about your young baby and it being so close to Christmas. But it's an understandable mistake.

YABU to think that you will never make this mistake or one similar. You're five months in. Come back in two years and tell us how you've never made a single mistake in your parenting journey.

So, you asked the question and you got the answer. Half the people who responded think you are being unreasonable.

You’ve been quite defensive in your posts (understandably with some of them, as the thread became a bit of a bunfight), but are you going to reevaluate at all in light of the voting?

Never said I was morally superior. Never said I wouldn't make mistake. Never even mentioned in my OP that I wouldn't do it myself, but admittedly no, I wouldn't do this. I asked specifically if I was being unreasonable about being annoyed and wanting a heads-up. People have said I was. This is what they have voted on.

Some people (like you) have decided to completely fabricate false extremes about me never leaving the house with a toddler in the future so they get on their soapbox and justify their shitty behaviour. And yes, it is shitty behaviour.

I’m several years into parenting and unless it really can’t be helped because they need to go to the doctors or whatever, I keep my kids home when they are contagious. So please stop generalising. Not everyone is like you. There is no need to have a cold for 6 months straight, what a miserable childhood for the kids. Your attitude is precisely why your kids are constantly ill. You’re not letting them recover which is what builds the immune system (not constantly beating it up with new infections). That attitude also means that everyone else around you is catching things. If people started keeping their kids at home during the most contagious stage of a cold at least and then let them recover when they do catch it, there would be less illness overall. Oh and stop going on about what the school says, all they care about is their attendance stats, not your child’s health. You are the parent and it’s for you to make that judgment call.

Indeed. I'd never dream of taking a toddler with a bug to a baby just before Christmas.

In fact, during COVID, I was monumentally pissed off with in laws who paid for a big holiday for the whole family - only to covertly come to a family party on a positive test, right before we were supposed to test to fly.

I've caught noro off the bride's sister's toddler at a hen do too.

Because "life goes on" attitudes include a fair amount of "I ruined something really special for someone but they didn't die, so fuck it".

I guess that (indirectly) answers my question then!

To be honest, the voting alone would have made me re-evaluate, but the comments on here have been so ridiculous that it is made me realise people have either voted based on a misinterpretation or they are genuinely just selfish. It's really disheartening and hasn't made me feel any better. I've learned 1) no point posting on mumsnet. 2) people don't have great reading comprehension and will extrapolate to ridiculous extremes so they can get a soapbox about entirely different circumstances 3) people love to act as though they somehow have superior knowledge as they have children 1/2 years older than mine 4) I should probably stop engaging with people as it is clearly a waste of time but it is hard to let such ridiculous comments lie.

I don't think either of you is particularly unreasonable, you just have different views on it and are at different stages of what you personally think is reasonable. A heads up would have been polite to give you the option of cancelling.

Please don’t reevaluate OP. You’re 100% not being unreasonable. Sadly, a lot of parents have this sort of attitude to spreading germs and all you can do is isolate as much as possible before any socials event/trips etc. I’m lucky as I’m a SAHM so can do this easily, I feel sorry for people who have no choice but send them to childcare before any such events as it’s almost guaranteed that there will always be at least one kid who shouldn’t be there because they are full of disease.

The most contagious stage is when the fever is present, which I assume is why nursery/school/the NHS guidance is to keep them at home when they have a fever. Once the fever is gone and they feel well you are free (as per guidance) to get out and about, snotty noses and coughs can linger long after they feel better and the fever is gone. That's what leads us to kids with low-level colds being out and about.

But listen, if you've never made a parenting mistake then I take my hat off to you. You're better than me, no argument! That's brilliant. To have got through several years of parenting without making a mistake is incredible. You should be so proud.

England parents have a kind of Stockholm syndrome when it comes to germs and illnesses.

The practical necessity to use childcare and overzealous pressure for school attendance mean that someone ill being at school/nursery is a norm, not an exception. Which leads to people getting used to it and fabricating positive relationships to the germs, to allow themselves to forget about how bad idea it really is.
And anyone questioning it is effectively questioning their own parenting, so it is important to immediately shut them down with a few phrases.

Even if you will join this later, it still doesn't excuse bringing ill children to visit a baby.

Most of the posters have been on both sides of this. Newborn babies - definitely avoid germs and ill children where possible. 5 months old isn’t in that category though.
Would you have been so annoyed had it NOT been been Christmas? It’s absolutely impossible to definitely pinpoint where your child caught a bug from. Although of course, it’s likely in this scenario to be the child. But bugs cannot be totally avoided.
I think you are disappointed to have had a crap poorly Christmas - welcome to parenthood! It sucks but it happens. Was in that boat last year - luckily for you your child is young enough that they won’t take a blind bit of notice.
I have been where your friend is - plans have been arranged, and to cancel for some is really sad to do, as a Mum who really REALLY struggled with isolation and negative mental health, I craved meet ups and plans and routine to keep both of us engaged… your friend made the wrong call. All of us parents do that daily. To be briefly gutted, fine. But don’t hold a grudge about it, what’s done is done. Move on, if you are good enough friends you will laugh about it in a few years!

I posted a similar post last year OP, when my son was in hospital seriously ill and struggling to breathe with RSV. It was a ranty post because I was so upset and angry at the time, but essentially said the same thing as you, because I’m sure we caught it from the mother and toddler sitting right next to us in a baby class, both with red eyes and noses and both very snotty. We were sat less than a meter from them and just two days later, DS developed a fever.

Yes we could have caught it anywhere, but it was most likely them. So for both mother and child who had a bad cold, to come to a class aimed at 6 to 18 months old, that was peak selfishness in my book.

Yet even then, I had a very similar response to my post - just wait until he’s a toddler, could have caught it anywhere, would never leave the house, maybe my child is the issue and must have a defective immune system (yes really, someone went on about how I should get his immune system tested). Except he is my second child and even with my first, I never took him out to mix with others when he was ill and I still don’t.

I had to leave that thread in the end because people kept defending the behaviour of the other mother and child. It just demonstrates that people believe their own lives are a priority and they don’t care about the impact they may have on others.

You've said multiple times that you would never, ever do this actually. Maybe not in the OP, but many times since.

I think what people are trying to point out is that you might actually, one day, once your toddler is at nursery and colds are part of daily life. It just becomes background noise and mistakes can be made.

If you care to read my post carefully, I agree with you that in an ideal world she should have told you (or even better just cancelled the visit). I think you are unreasonable to hold such negative views about her though. I think she made a mistake. I think you, in your parenting journey, will also make mistakes.

No need for soapboxes or 'completely fabricating false extremes'. I've just read your posts and responded in a measured way. You're right, but perhaps temper your views about your friend a little.

@FurForksSakeyour own toddler gave your own baby an illness that triggered a hospital visit

Would you take your toddler to someone else's house knowing they were ill and the severity of passing on illness ??

Op I'm with you she was totally unthinking .

It is very selfish. But equally if you've got toddlers this time of year then they'll be having colds. So to her it felt like not much.

However, she shouldn't have just bowled into your house..she should've said 'I was thinking of popping round, little Esmeralda has a bit of a cold though.' then you can say 'No. Sorry but I don't want to risk any of us catching it. We'll see eachother as soon as she's better.'

It's still not 100% certain your kid did catch it from her though. If it was the tail end of it. It could've come from someone who only just started having symptoms.

Can we be friends?😆I feel like most parents in the UK have the sort of attitude you describe which makes it difficult for those of us who don’t want their kids constantly ill. And I agree about the bingo phrases they always use to shut others down. My favourite one is-do you when a health anxiety?

I have an old friend like that. She invited me over for tea and once I was there told me her daughter was ill with flu. I just left. I should have known better because she's got form.

@Biscuit94 You will find that the people who give you a heads up/decline to meet you when ill are the same ones who have basic courtesy in other aspects of life as well. They are considerate as opposed to selfabsorbed and selfish.

I can be annoyed and upset at somebody without "holding such negative views". I can say I wouldn't do something without feeling " morally superior". That's you extrapolating...

Oh my goodness that is awful. I am so sorry to hear it. I am currently having to be extra vigilant with my LO as she is so bunged up and struggling to feed 😞 I am just keeping an eye out for wet nappies/temp/breathing etc. It is so infuriating for people to say "but she's not newborn". RSV can be potentially very serious for any baby under 6 months and can present as a simple cold in other children. 🤦🏼‍♀️

You're right in that I dont plan on holding a grudge. I'm just annoyed right now as I'm living through it. Once I'm on the other side, I'm not going to resent her for life. Though I would say what presents as a simple cold in a toddler can be serious for any baby under 6 months - not just newborns.

This seems to make complete sense.

Sorry OP for so many nasty dim responses.
Yanbu at all.

Your friend was spectacularly selfish.
A decent friend/human being wouldn't dream of arriving to a house with a small baby with a sick toddler in toe.
She doesn't give a damn about you or your baby.
It suited her to visit you and nothing was getting in the way of that.

Of course your baby doesn't need to be getting sick tp build immunity 🙄.

You will learn a lot from this.
One, she is no friend.
Two, its perfectly reasonable to refuse entry to anyone ill, or will an ill child.
Three, there is no harm in keeping yourself as well as possible during the winter months with good hand hygiene and avoiding crowded places with babies.

I really hope you both feel better soon.

You're not in the least bit unreasonable. My then six month old son had to spend a scary week in hospital thanks to 'just a cold'.