To struggle to understand practicing non-believers

[Relient]

Hi, first of all this isn’t intended on a personal attack on how any believes of lives there life. I also want to make clear I’m not talking about people who participate in the cultural aspects of a religious holiday but not the religious, it’s about a very specific belief system which I’m struggling to understand.

This year my son began dating someone new, she is early 20s Portuguese and Italian. We aren’t spending Christmas with them but we met up with them today.

In meeting up with them I learnt a lot about her beliefs, again I’m not judging them or saying my inability to understand makes her belief system wrong. I’m merely now thinking about it in a more abstract sense inspired by what I learned.

His girlfriend is what she called an agnostic Catholic or practicing non-believer. She said that she doesn’t believe with full faith there is a god but doesn’t believe it’s impossible for a god to exist, she said that she bases her non-belief on what is currently proven as fact and her lack of commitment to there definitely not being a god on the fact that humanity is ever continuing to learn and discover new things, so she can rationalise that there may be a time where a god could be proven, even if as of yet that isn’t possible.

She then explained that she goes to church during Holy Week, several times around Christmas and any time where she is feeling like she needs some comfort in life, however she doesn’t consciously keep to any rules, confess etc.

I asked why she still goes to church here in London, when she doesn’t really believe and she said she felt the sense of community, tradition, reflection and humility it gives her.

As an atheist I’ve never really been able to understand this view. I fully understand why people believe and are devout, believe and adapt the practices to suit their life, believe but don’t practice and of course I understand people who don’t believe and don’t practice or those who don’t believe but accept the cultural elements of the religious festivals and celebrate them. I just really can’t wrap my head around someone who doesn’t believe, is incredibly articulate and philosophical about why they don’t believe but then chooses to practice anyway, especially in the absence of family being a driving force.

Can anyone here enlighten me? AIBU to struggle to understand this? Is it obvious and I’m somehow subconsciously missing it?

Yeah. I'm an atheist, born and bred. I go to church sometimes. I was going to go for the big service last night, but the weather was filthy so I didn't.

It's analogous to going to the pub as a teetotaller! You could say pubs are for drinkers but they're also social places, community anchors, and often part of the local history. Like churches.

This. Dont do what my MIL does and try to tell her that humanism is exactly the same and prove it by getting her to watch a highbrow lecture on Philosophy@

Agree. It sounds like she has explained her reasons very well and they are perfectly understandable.

I am a little surprised you are still "struggling" to get it when she has explained it so articulately already.

Sometimes it's not about believing, it's about belonging.

And that is why I started going to church when we moved into the area. I'm not religious, but like the sprituality and being part of a community.

When DD was born and things went very pear shaped the support I got from the congregation was wonderful. I made a lot of friends through the church and still meet up with them 25 years later.

I started attending church as an adult non believer for the community and comfort it gave me. It made me a believer and I am so grateful that I have this in my life now.

She just sounds agnostic and enjoys the sense of community - I personally don’t enjoy the preaching but have occasionally been to a service, usually Christmas and got married in a church

She's explained why. Doubt there's much more to it than that really.

I dont know what to describe myself as. I am certainly not an atheist.I believe in a supreme form of life which created the universe - it didnt get there on its own. But have no conception of what form that life may take. There may be more than one of them. I dont belong to any particular religion and never could. I dont believe its necessary to go into a particular building and do particular things to acknowledge that there is a supreme being. I am also fascinated in an academic way by the concept of religion and what other people believe. I like to hear about their views and their rituals and to ask questions in a respectful way. Ive had many conversations with Moslems, Jews, and Hindus as I live in a diverse area.

Culture is different to religious beliefs. At school we sang hymns and Christmas carols, and I enjoyed it. It is part of my upbringing. The fact that I don’t believe in a God has nothing to do with it.

She has explained it very clearly but perhaps you are thinking that in her position you would behave differently? But she's not you and has had a different upbringing.

This. I do the same. I don't believe, but I do enjoy the ceremony and the community if a church gathering, especially if it's in a beautiful church. I can admire others belief, even envy it a bit, and I like contemplating mans historical connections with "God".

I probably wouldn’t get caught up too much in this. I would re-focus on my own beliefs and leave hers well alone. Each to their own.

By any chance were you, like me, brought up in a religious family for whom the key question was ‘but what is true?’

If so, once that belief falls away it can seem that doing anything else religious is hypocritical or empty.

I’ve shifted my view though and now feel that a huge amount of the value of religion is unconnected to its truth value.

That seems to be what your son’s girlfriend is expressing.

I still wouldn’t personally practice, as to me, truth is still the central question and to me it would feel empty and hypocritical. But I now think those practicing non-believers are doing something quite wise that I dismissed for too long.

I have lived in Italy for the last 30 years. The culture and Catholicism appear (to me) to be so intertwined that I can’t work out where one ends and the other begins.

And despite being offically CoE (non believing, non practising) I’ve turned into an agnostic, semi-practising, non-official, Catholic.

I can’t explain it. It just happened. And rather than dissect it, I’m just letting it go where it wants to go.

There’s a book called the Christian atheist which explains this well. People like the traditions, structure, community etc even though they do not believe that the bible is true. The vast majority of practicing Christians in the U.K. do not believe in the literal truth but still find comfort and enjoy church. I work for the church and it never ceases to amaze me how many people are like this

Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

It sounds like she is open minded either way.

I don’t totally believe in the theory that if you treat people kindly they’ll ultimately treat you the same way. But I also don’t totally disbelieve it. So I generally take roughly that approach to my life.

If it turns out to be proven totally true, then Im all good. If it turns out not to be, Ive not really lost out.

That’s possibly an easier version to relate to. But principle is the same.

Catholic churches are very similar around the world.

The mass is word for word the same but in the local language, you do occasionally get a Latin mass and occasionally a sung mass.

It can feel like 'coming home'

My mum was a practicing non-believer and had been her entire life. I think this is true of many Catholics.

My sons are Catholic, as am I, and staunchly atheist. They still both suggested we go to mass yesterday, for old times’ sake. The pub proved the more attractive option in the end.

@Pandorea has put this beautifully.

I think the explanation she has given is very clear and sane.

I am not a person of faith: was raised agnostic but in the CofE tradition but my parents didn’t believe or bother.

I will never be a practicing Christian and can’t get past my scepticism of the faith element of religion. The metaphysical nature of it seems absolutely absurd to me. Not to mention my difficulty with the way the Christian church has treated various people over the years, particularly women and vulnerable children.

But I can see a huge amount of good in faiths (of different kinds) in terms of the community, the ability to provide guidance and support to people in trouble, the moral compass and the general social infrastructure.

I know I will never get past the metaphysical block but I sometimes wish I could just to get the sense of belonging and support.

I’m with her.
I love going to church for the supportiveness, sense of community etc and I love a good hymn. But I’m not in the least bit religious.
I think there could be a market for non-religious churches where people come together to do good, support each other and sing a bit.

There are the Sunday Assemblies.

I am a Hindu atheist which is valid path to take and not seen as a contradiction. I don’t believe in god but I’ll accept everything else my religion gives me in terms of rituals, community, food and self reflection within temples.

There are quite a few books on this topic. Can you recommend one please?