To struggle to understand practicing non-believers

[Relient]

Hi, first of all this isn’t intended on a personal attack on how any believes of lives there life. I also want to make clear I’m not talking about people who participate in the cultural aspects of a religious holiday but not the religious, it’s about a very specific belief system which I’m struggling to understand.

This year my son began dating someone new, she is early 20s Portuguese and Italian. We aren’t spending Christmas with them but we met up with them today.

In meeting up with them I learnt a lot about her beliefs, again I’m not judging them or saying my inability to understand makes her belief system wrong. I’m merely now thinking about it in a more abstract sense inspired by what I learned.

His girlfriend is what she called an agnostic Catholic or practicing non-believer. She said that she doesn’t believe with full faith there is a god but doesn’t believe it’s impossible for a god to exist, she said that she bases her non-belief on what is currently proven as fact and her lack of commitment to there definitely not being a god on the fact that humanity is ever continuing to learn and discover new things, so she can rationalise that there may be a time where a god could be proven, even if as of yet that isn’t possible.

She then explained that she goes to church during Holy Week, several times around Christmas and any time where she is feeling like she needs some comfort in life, however she doesn’t consciously keep to any rules, confess etc.

I asked why she still goes to church here in London, when she doesn’t really believe and she said she felt the sense of community, tradition, reflection and humility it gives her.

As an atheist I’ve never really been able to understand this view. I fully understand why people believe and are devout, believe and adapt the practices to suit their life, believe but don’t practice and of course I understand people who don’t believe and don’t practice or those who don’t believe but accept the cultural elements of the religious festivals and celebrate them. I just really can’t wrap my head around someone who doesn’t believe, is incredibly articulate and philosophical about why they don’t believe but then chooses to practice anyway, especially in the absence of family being a driving force.

Can anyone here enlighten me? AIBU to struggle to understand this? Is it obvious and I’m somehow subconsciously missing it?

She’s answered your question, it just sounds as if you aren’t understanding or listening?

I think religious practice is very obviously good for humans, and it’s difficult to find anything to replace it if you don’t believe any more.

If you don’t already understand I don’t think you should try anymore, just accept it’s none of your business.

She's already explained it - it's for community, comfort etc. If she was raised with these rituals and practices as a child they will be an important source of continuity and reassurance to her as an adult.

I was raised in the Episcopalian faith (not an especially religious family, but occasional church etc) and my school was quite churchy. I'm a non-believer now but I still enjoy the ritual of a church service sometimes, because of the way it connects me to other humans in a sense of shared endeavour. It makes me feel peaceful and safe to be part of a congregation now and then.

Op, she explained it pretty well then.
I don’t know what you are confused about .
I am a person with faith who was brought up as a Catholic , but my brother does not quite believe in a God
However, he wanted his kids to attend a Catholic school because the rituals and culture are familiar to him.

She explained it very clearly to you:
I asked why she still goes to church here in London, when she doesn’t really believe and she said she felt the sense of community, tradition, reflection and humility it gives her.

This doesn’t seem a ‘struggle to understand’: do you dislike her church attendance and/or agnosticism?

This is me.

I don’t see the problem. She’s explained. You can’t get your head round it. 🤷‍♀️

She sounds lovely and intelligent - even if her beliefs are different to yours, she sounds like she has good self-awareness and good values. I’d focus on that side of things, and definitely not question her or your son in any negative kind of way.
I’m not religious but have occasionally been to church services, especially around Christmas time. The reasons are complicated and probably mostly to do with childhood memories and it feeling like a link with older relatives long gone - and a bit of stepping away from the consumerist values of modern Christmas and taking some quiet time to reflect. It annoys me when my dp grills me about exactly why I’m going or starts banging on about all that’s wrong with religion. I don’t think everything has to be black and white, and if something brings someone comfort, then there’s no harm in it.

I grew up Catholic but never believed it was forced on me but I starting going again when I felt homesick at Uni the familiarity was comforting, I didn’t start believing or following the rules I just took comfort from the ritual. We went to the local (non RC) Cathedral the day our dog died - I don’t know why we went - we wandered past, maybe because it was a dog friendly church - I can’t rationalise it - we lit a candle and sat with our grief and felt comforted by our surroundings. I don’t have a belief - but the culture runs deep.

I hadn't thought about it, @Relient, but I guess I'm similar to your premise, although my family background is CofE. The first two posters pretty much explained my feelings. I enjoy the occasional service, especially around significant annual or life events, the singing (even though my singing voice is lousy!), the feeling of welcome and community plus a lot of the ideals behind Christianity are a good basis for life.

She's told you why.

She's a long way from home and attends for the comfort, familiarity and sense of community. There will probably be a bit of family pressure in there as well.

Her logic and education prevent her from believing but she likes all the social and supportive aspects of the church. Not so hard to understand.

The vicar of my local church told me that he didn't believe in God.

I am probably wrong but I think the majority of people that aren't fanatics but follow any faith are the same, just not as self reflective or honest as this woman.

The culture, community and values are more important to people than literal beliefs. Especially in these times, that is why Christianity is having somewhat of a resurgence in the west.

Don’t really think ‘unreasonableness’ comes into this?

Do think everyone has a slightly different interpretation of the precise ‘meaning’ of a/any word… so can debate for eternity😉.

FIL was very senior in the church. DH, in contrast, believes in precisely nothing in spite of (or quite likely because of) his very Christian upbringing. I do believe in something but I’m not entirely sure what. On holiday we occasionally visit cathedrals and synagogues (if they’re open and we’re welcome) for the architecture, history and feeling of peace we (especially me) feel inside them. We live reasonably near to Canterbury Cathedral and always go in if we’re in Canterbury. I find it the most extraordinary spiritual place. DS2 is a chorister and doesn’t believe anything but adores the choral music. I watch Carols From Kings every Christmas Eve because I love a good choral banger.

Today we’ll have presents and an oversized Christmas lunch for togetherness and happiness. Equally at Easter the chocolate will come out.

OP I think your son’s girlfriend has explained things very clearly. I hope you enjoy Christmas and so does she.

I was brought up in a very religious home and would describe myself now as a non believer. But I may go to church for the company and the singing. It feels very familiar to me and I love hymns.

I think she has explained it, i.e the sense of community etc. If shes bern raised religious maybe its just paet of her identity and she enjoys it. Im non religious but go to midnight mass at the nearby cathedral because i enjoy the ritual and reflection time.

You dont have to understand it, just accept it

Cultural Catholicism, it's common for a lot of people from Catholic countries. Mr Monkey is Irish and was bought up Catholic (Jesuit school, Sunday mass .... the lot). He does not believe but still observes important religious holidays, has church services for important family events and had his son baptised and confirmed.

Yes I agree. She has explained it to you very thoroughly. I feel the same as her and am much older than her but have struggled to explain it as well to my atheist IL's. Catholicism is very ritual based. Knowing that if you felt you needed to just sut somewhere calmly you could turn up to any Catholic church in the world and know what to do and you would belong is comforting. I do the same as her. Go to Holy Week services, Christmas and sometimes just uf I feel Id like to sit in silence somewhere.

I’m guessing she’s Catholic and was brought up in a culture steeped in Catholicism. It’s very hard to give up completely when it feels intrinsic to who you are, even if intellectually you don’t really believe. Also what she said about community etc

I think the practice of religion fulfils many needs for humans, even if the faith is not there. She sounds like a very smart girl to have figured so much out and articulated her position so well.

This is very common in Orthodox Jewish communities. It’s about a sense of community and belonging. The concept even has a name (can google) “social orthodoxy”.

You mention that you’re not spending Christmas with them and also say you’re an Atheist. As an Atheist and presumably someone who celebrates or marks Christmas in some way, I think this addresses your question - you don’t believe but are happy to take part in the Christmas culture.

This is what your son’s gf is doing too. She finds comfort in the rhythm and rituals of religion but she doesn’t practise everything it teaches. Lots of people are ‘cultural Catholics’ or ‘cultural Muslims’ or (insert own belief system here). I don’t think it’s that unusual.

Similar to me, it’s all still very cultural but due to family arrangements this year I haven’t attended Midnight Mass but still do often. I cook at a food project every week in a church and we have a prayer in the kitchen before any of the recipients arrive, it’s entirely voluntary to pray. It’s a lovely coming together. I would love to be as steadfast in my faith as I used to be. I’m not a Catholic but attended Anglican High Church and was christened by my own choice at 13, my family were not church attendees.