To have not lied to DS about trans actor in Last Christmas?

[DungOnATwig]

Watching above with DD17 (lesbian) and DS11 (straight) earlier today. One scene where a female presenting (long hair + fake eyelashes) but clearly biologically male actor plays a doctor (just Dr). DS says "that......lady sounds like a man".

I said yeah it is a man love. A man who identifies as a sex they are not.

DD paused then typed a wee bit more furiously than usual for 30 secs but then was ok. She knows tbf. She's lesbian and not pan.

It was so distilled down to me at the point of his very innocent (and tentative so as not to offend question) that I am not prepared to lie to my kid about the fucking fundamentals of life and tell them that person is a woman. Fuck that.

Merry Christmas 🍷

Also FUCK THAT FILM 😭😭😭😭😭

Rebecca has never lived as a woman, because it’s literally impossible for Rebecca to do so.

You really cant tell though. I know women who look like that. Just offensive that women have to look altra feminine now.

🙄

What are you talking about? Women don't need to look ultra feminine. They just need to be female.

Well it's true, isn't it? What do you think 'living as a woman' means?

Right backatcha 🙄

Women can look/present however they want. A man in a frock is clearly a man in a frock.

I think the reality is that we've all at some time been in a female toilet with a trans woman and not noticed, because we've generally got better things to do than scrutinise everyone else in there.

I've been in unisex toilets where the basins are in the cubicles. It didn't bother me at all, nor indeed did it bother any of the other women using them.

Its really quite revealing that you chose not to answer the question as asked @GoodQueenWenceslaus.Are you ok with sharing non cubicle in basin female toilets with men who don’t claim to be women? Most women and girls would not be. Just like they also aren’t ok with most men who identify as women (who are obviously men) there.

But it’s not clear at all.

For a tiny number. For most, like Rebecca, it’s pretty obvious.

Great. Do you can use the unisex toilets with the males, and the women can use the female toilets. Awesome. All sorted. So males and those women who don’t mind mixed sex toilets can use those. Women and men who need and deserve single sex facilities get those.

Unless you are completely blind, you CAN tell, and very very easily. It's not about 'feminine' or 'masculine' looks. It's about the SKELETAL STRUCTURE. Male height, male square jaw bone, limb length, gait, hand and feet size, lack of hips, broad square shoulders, adams apple, etc etc. It is so soooo easy to tell. It's actually very offensive of you to say we can't.

That is simply not reality. It really is an insane fantasy. Putting aside the fact that you are suggesting that males breaching the rules are so commonplace, you are suggesting we don't have eyeballs in our head. We can tell a male at a sidewards glance. We don't 'need' to scrutinise them. They don't pass, they really don't. They stand out like a sore thumb. You're fooling yourself if you think they do.

It is as long as you have two eyeballs in your head. If you can't tell the difference between a man and a woman, you have something wrong with you.

I find it truly strange that civilisation has flourished and grown over millennia, all the way up to the 1990s and beyond 2010. We've had single sex facilities, female and male spaces, things like mens clubs, The Mens Shed, single sex schools, and have grouped society around the two sexes. Now, all of a sudden, some people have, in the space of less than one generation, managed to BRAINWASH others to believe we somehow, now, can't tell a man from a woman.

I mean, how did that happen? And how did people fall for such demonstrable nonsense? Where is there self respect?

Have people completely lost their senses and brains? Or is worshipping the patriarchy that important?

Can I ask you how come, if you are so sure that you can tell, that all my life I have been occasions challenged for being on the wrong toilets and frequently called sir or mate by customer service people?

If it’s really so difficult to tell men from women, then it’s even more important for men to take responsibility for their actions and stay out of women’s spaces.

But you only know if you identify them as a man. You have no way of knowing how many times you have shared a space wirh a trans man (or a trans woman) and not known.

The stuff you are quoting, height, shoulders, voice etc is all on a bell curve, and the most masculine-end women will look more male than the most feminine-end man.

I didn't answer a question above because it always comes down to an argument "we can always tell every single male" and not only is it not true it's incredibly insulting to women who don't fit into a standard model of femininity.

I don't get how other women can't see how that by insisting they can always differentiate physical male appearance from physical female appearance, they are demeaning women who do not fit a standard female appearance in exactly the same way that the trans lobby are.

Me too. Happens all the time to me.

So you’re saying even though the law says people with a trans identity just use the facilities relating to their sex, and it’s widely known them using the facilities not related to their sex may cause harm and distress, non cis people will do it anyway? So you’re saying most non cis people are inconsiderate criminals? Wow! Pretty transphobic there buddy

It is not a criminal offence to use the "wrong" toilet, it would be a civil dispute only unless there was a fight over it. Inconsiderate they might be, criminals not.

The law has given us the right to challenge obviously male people in a women only toilet. It gives us the same right not to be raped. But you can't control everyone's behaviour, never have been able to, and never will be able to.

What the law doesn't say, which a lot of people seem to think it does, is that women only spaces have to be provided. The hotel I'm currently in has a sign on the public ladies "Ladies, Dames and Queens", and that's perfectly legal.

It is harder when it's women, but as soon as you turn around and/or speak, it would become obvious.

Again, you are talking about 'masculine' and 'feminine' looks. It's not about if you look pretty and girly. Male skeletal structure is fixed. It is not on a 'bell curve'.