To have not lied to DS about trans actor in Last Christmas?

[DungOnATwig]

Watching above with DD17 (lesbian) and DS11 (straight) earlier today. One scene where a female presenting (long hair + fake eyelashes) but clearly biologically male actor plays a doctor (just Dr). DS says "that......lady sounds like a man".

I said yeah it is a man love. A man who identifies as a sex they are not.

DD paused then typed a wee bit more furiously than usual for 30 secs but then was ok. She knows tbf. She's lesbian and not pan.

It was so distilled down to me at the point of his very innocent (and tentative so as not to offend question) that I am not prepared to lie to my kid about the fucking fundamentals of life and tell them that person is a woman. Fuck that.

Merry Christmas 🍷

Also FUCK THAT FILM 😭😭😭😭😭

So police used to be called when men were in the ladies, and the police would take them away and often charge them. But according to you, it is not a criminal offence. Sure...

One thing I do know; us women are working on getting this criminal offence set in stone and able to be prosecuted.

The customer service people are face to face with me. Not only are you fooling yourself that you can reliably tell a man at the feminine end of the bell curve from a woman at the masculine end of the bell curve, you are being devastatingly demeaning to women who don't fit a standard feminine model and applying exactly the same argument as the trans lobby who say they know what it is to be a woman. Why can't you see that?

Charge them with what? It is not a criminal offence to be a male in a ladies loo, so they weren't charged with that. It's not "according to me", it's according to the law.

It is. And it was. And they were. They were charged with voyeurism or indecent exposure.

Voyeurism or indecent exposure are specific offences or they could be charged with a public order offence as a catchall i.e. behaviour likely to occasion a breach of the peace.

FFS. AGAIN with the 'feminine'. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH FEMININE LOOKS.

It's about the SKELETAL STRUCTURE. I don't know how many times it has to be explained to you. You clearly are not 'getting it'. It has nothing whatsoever to do with pretty looks or feminine looks.

Quite. They were not changed with being a man in a ladies loo.

Have you heard of a bell curve?

What is transphobia in your definition? If its refusing to teach children that a man can change into a woman then i'm hella transphobe - as is most.

Yes, they were.

And then there's the adams apple 🍏

Have you heard of SET, FIXED skeletal structure? That, is NOT on a 'bell curve'.

It's not a bell curve. It's an absolute difference between how male/female skeletons are constructed.

And the smell of male sweat.

Oh yes. Male BO. It's completely different to female BO. Men have a scent that is completely different from women.

Nope. I have had conversations with people who don't believe I'm a woman. And the simple fact is, you do not know if you've not realised a woman is trans rather than cis

If a transwoman is taking female hormones then it might not be so different.

In this case it is. This person is clearly a man to me.

Almost EVERYTHING in the natural world is on a bell curve and skeletal structure and size certainly is.

I have male pattern fingers. Look it up.

Tell NW tonights Annabel Tiffin that women don't have square jaws.

Rtc etc etc etc etc@

Anyone heard of April Ashley? She had a successful career as a model in the 60s and appeared on the front cover of Vogue. No one knew she was male u til she was outed by a childhood acquaintance.

Most men don't have BO, and I defy anyone to smell the difference between males and females when both sexes are now drowning themselves in perfume.

Or Steff McGovern.

@Imdunfer I'm rather missing your point here.

Are you suggesting that since (in your opinion, though FWIW I actually agree with you) there are some people who are reliably mis-sexed, there is no point in ever even attempting to provide sex-specific supports, nor in expecting that individuals, who do know their own sex even if they wish it was different, behave like reasonable human beings and respect them?

Because if that is your point, I thoroughly, utterly disagree.

Female people deal with an unfair pile of shit both because of our sex directly, and because of how society, especially male society, feels entitled to treat us because of our sex. And that does not go away simply because the sex of some individuals may not be immediately apparent.

So it is not fair or reasonable to expect millions, billions of women (original female meaning) to put up with all the shit that comes with our bodies without recourse to female-only provisions and protections, nor to tell us we cannot speak plainly about who is a man and who is a woman and why that matters, simply to spare the hurt feelings of a few.

Almost EVERYTHING in the natural world is on a bell curve

Where are you getting this from? What are you even referencing here? Do you think cars are on a bell curve with dogs are something? What do you think the bell curve is measuring?

Female and male skeletons are put together differently, due to different shaped pelvic bones, with different subpubic angles. The result is different Q angle connecting hip to knee, which impacts the mechanics of walking in each sex.

So if en can use the ladies toilets with impunity, surely that belies the non cis males claims thst they are unsafe in male toilets doesn’t it? So therefore the only reason non cis males use female facilities is for validation?