To have not lied to DS about trans actor in Last Christmas?

[DungOnATwig]

Watching above with DD17 (lesbian) and DS11 (straight) earlier today. One scene where a female presenting (long hair + fake eyelashes) but clearly biologically male actor plays a doctor (just Dr). DS says "that......lady sounds like a man".

I said yeah it is a man love. A man who identifies as a sex they are not.

DD paused then typed a wee bit more furiously than usual for 30 secs but then was ok. She knows tbf. She's lesbian and not pan.

It was so distilled down to me at the point of his very innocent (and tentative so as not to offend question) that I am not prepared to lie to my kid about the fucking fundamentals of life and tell them that person is a woman. Fuck that.

Merry Christmas 🍷

Also FUCK THAT FILM 😭😭😭😭😭

Oh goody, the 'but your toilet at your (safe, private, closed off) home is gender neutral!' argument...

☝👏

I cannot believe people are still trotting this out 🤦‍♀️

I'm delighted for you that you are in that position. Other women are unfortunately much less privileged. I have a friend who was brutally raped and is now badly triggered by men in spaces where she feels more vulnerable, like toilets. It is totally immaterial to her how these men are dressed.

I can, it’s not as if they have a lot of great arguments to use.

And times when we are vulnerable, say alone, in a female space, the presence of any strange man is going to be threatening to most women. Because he should not be there, so he’s already crossed a line. He’s a man in a female only space, a boundary violator. That doesn’t change because he’s popped on a dress.

I’ve “only” been the victim of a “mild” sexual assault - a group of south Asian men groping women through thick winter clothes (in my case at least!) in a very crowded Trafalgar Square on New Year’s Eve. It left me angry but not traumatised, or particularly fearful of men.

However I am absolutely fearful of any man in a single sex women’s space - men should not be there, and thanks to the FWS judgment there can be no doubt: they know they should not be there.

So any man who continues to use women’s toilets/changing rooms/hospital wards etc is at best knowingly breaking the law, transgressing women’s boundaries and putting their own “wants” over women’s rights to safety, privacy and dignity.

At worst they are potentially a violent sexual predator.

Shame on anyone who argues men should be entitled to use women’s facilities.

Exactly. I’m not sure why people have trouble grasping this, @CraggyIslandTouristBoard

Exactly.

I struggle to believe an 11 year old spotted that.

Long necks?

I have a long neck like her and model.
No one has ever suggested it’s manly.

Also a strong jaw is often considered attractive on women. Angelina Jolie has a strong jaw.

My best friend has her dad’s strong jaw and she is objectively gorgeous.

Plenty of short necked men about too. Prop forwards for example.

Have you mistaken many short-necked male prop forwards for women?

Since the discussion has been reactivated, I'll post where my thoughts have gone since I wrote this -

A list of a "typical" female's measures.
You are no better than the trans warriors, you are defining being a woman exactly the same way they do.

And someone replied this -

No she isn’t, because TRAs say being a woman is about feeling and identity and nothing to do with those things.

They may say being a woman is about feeling like being a woman but they then use surgery, padding, clothes, makeup to make themselves look as close as they can to the female stereotypical physicality described as how to recognise femaleness by women on this forum.

Both sides are using the exact same physical criteria to define "being a woman".

It's insulting to the very many women who do not fit either side's standard measures of being female, but it's a damned sight more insulting when it's done by women!

Both sides are using the exact same physical criteria to define "being a woman"

That's nonsense. The GC criteria for being a woman is simply being female

Have you read any of the thread?

Throughout the thread women have been defining being a woman by physical characteristics.

The physical characteristics that result from the lack of an SRY gene.

Actually I watched the excellent gritty police drama called ‘Crime’ starring Dougray Scott. The character he plays has a best friend who is a transwoman (I presume played by a trans actor) but the script expects no additional suspension of belief than the drama itself.

The character makes no pretence of the fact that they were born a man and they certainly draw upon that physicality in the script. The script also explored the discrimination they encounter and were pragmatic about the confusion their new presentation brought about in other people. It was so bloody refreshing.

As someone who is strongly GC I’m happy to accept a trans character and empathise with their struggles where things are presented honestly and we are not expected to collude in the insulting lie that they actually are women. Everyone, and them more than anyone, know they are not.

What do you think defines a woman then? Because I’m clear that I think it’s being a human female who has survived to adulthood. It doesn’t require any particular look. But obviously the female body has a particular configuration that the male one does not and it’s silly to pretend that’s not the case. It has nothing to do with feelings, and as I pointed out, that’s the TRA argument. It’s not consistent because there are many reasons men want to be women (and to a much lesser extent vice versa) which is what you’re talking about.

I was responding to the point about a long neck being clearly the marker of a male, which it clearly isn’t.

What, you mean physical characteristics like being female? I suppose at least they're not being as sexist as misogynistic as reducing being a woman to a feeling. But they are correct. They are describing the physical characteristics like being of most women and you’re trying to drag in outliers and exceptions to prove men should be allowed in female spaces. Why? Why should men be allowed in female spaces however they look?

The definition of being female is the absence a Y chromosome.

To define being a woman in any other way depends on describing looks, behaviour, body organs that may not be present and/or skeletal structure that is not 100% uniform for all women.

"Most women"

And therein lies your problem.

I don't and never have believed that men should have any right to be in women's spaces and Ice said so many times.

The "outliers" , what a nice way to describe your fellow women, are so numerous that they are all around you.

But obviously the female body has a particular configuration that the male one does not and it’s silly to pretend that’s not the case.

What is silly is to declare that there is no overlap in external clothed physical appearance between the most masculine women and the most feminine men when the evidence that is incorrect is in front of your eyes.

The only external physical characteristics unique to one sex are the penis, testicles and vulva.

Oh, and for everyone who wants to start posting pictures of skeletons and banging on again (and again) about pelvis shape, I suggest you go and look up "android pelvis", often found in tall women.