To feel like I don’t like men anymore

[Dogsinsantasuits]

Not as in not attracted to them, although I am less bothered these days
It’s almost like i’m coming to a realisation that most (not all) are not great and women are infinitely stronger people.
Is this an age thing-late 40’s? Sad as I used to really like men. Now all I see around me is amazing women with men who aren’t a patch on them or dangerous and/or perverted men in the news.

Definitely, absolutely, 100% voluntary. Gotcha. 😂

But joking aside I do suspect that with at least some of these women that hate men so much it's just bitter grapes. Like the blokes that see a guy revving a lambo down the street and are like "nah, I wouldn't want to be a poser like that". They somehow never get triggered by a ford mondeo tho. It's a definite case of they doth protest too much IMO.

So, when you see all these women so vehemently claiming they don't want a man you do sometimes wonder if it's just a coping mechanism. Obviously NACWALT (Not All Celibate Women Are Like That) but I think some probs are. It's why you hear them banging on about handmaids and how women become invisible at a certain age. It's like a coping mechanism to remind themselves that one day the attractive women won't have the social status they command right now.

I'm a bit tipsy atm so should probs try and avoid getting told off by the mods or causing anyone to have a mardy, but when you see some of these women in real life it kinda all makes sense. When I was studying there were some women from the gender studies class in one of my modules. Some were normal (at least in appearance) but there were more than the fair share of blue haired ogres with loads of piercings etc. Some of them seemed really aggro, especially when a bloke dared speak up, and you'd defo not want to play patriarchy chicken with most of them without the benefit of proper riot gear.

It's just a chicken and egg question of whether they ended up as radicalised feminists because of how they looked or whether they looked that way post feminism due to rejecting standard beauty ideals. Either way, they didn't seem like very much fun. Frowning is meant to burn more calories than smiling so it was odd how they were all so far from size zero lol.

What you’re interpreting as women’s negative views of men is actually just women describing relationships where men lack the skills for healthy participation.

It doesn't take any interpretation, it's being spelled out in plain language.

And yes. This thread shows Women regularly choose husbands who they don't think have the skills for healthy participation. So it's up to men to understand that women will marry and have children with men they don't like, so it's up to men to save women from themselves and never get married. Women will be better off becaise and be happier without being saddled to a man (and according to this thread) they will live longer.

Not quite sure what you're getting so stressed about. We seem to be in almost total agreement. You fully accept that marriage and family life is bad for women, so the solution is obvious. The only minor quibble you have is that you think marriage and family life is desired by men, and I don't, which doesn't make much difference to the core issue which is people getting committed when it isn't in their best interests.

So what is the point of this post? Do you think insulting people's ideas will make them see your point of view?

I also do not get the sense you are trying to understand women's point of view at all. If you don't do that, why would they listen to you? Or even read what you have to say? You are just polarising which is not helpful.

Implying people develop feminist ideas because they are ugly (as perceived by you), is reinforcing a stereotypical idea and dismissing these people's lived experience.

I'm giving you this feedback since seem to be struggling to understand the problem and instead of trying to understand WHY all the women on this thread say they don't like men very much, you became defensive and resorted to poor argumentation and stereotypes.

I think people tend to mature as they age (well some of them), and the loss of youth does not diminish their value, as you seem to imply.

Young men are not more valuable as humans than older men and the same goes for women. People become more experienced, less naive, have deeper insights into conflicts, etc. Most of us would not want to be 20 again, although ageing comes with disadvantages.

I would never choose the men I liked at 25 now as I value different things and want someone who is equal and emotionally mature. I think the reason many women on this thread say they don't like men any more because they perceive that men may not have matured in the same way and are not acting and sharing the load in an equal way.

So why would so many women reinforce this idea on this thread? You might not have experienced this yourself or it might be an uncomfortable truth you'd rather not address as you'd have to take some accountability?

so you can have a mutually happy relationship

This is a thread of people saying they don't want a relationship (or at least a LTR). I'm strongly agreeing with the majority, who don't.

Why would you drop into such a thread advice on how to have a relationship? The last thing I'd want to do is shorten someone's life and turn them into a maid.

Yes.

I think people tend to mature as they age

Yup, so let's spell that out in advance. If people change (which they do) then marriage and kids or any kind of commitment is a really bad idea. It's a bit silly to entangle lives if one or both are going to mature and decide they don't want to be with the other one.

Threads like this help educate people in what's coming, and it can be easily avoided.

(well some of them), and the loss of youth does not diminish their value, as you seem to imply.

I didn't remotely imply age diminishes someone's value nor do I think it does. (Not even sure how it would.)

So why would so many women reinforce this idea on this thread? You might not have experienced this yourself or it might be an uncomfortable truth you'd rather not address as you'd have to take some accountability?

Not even sure where you're going with this. There's nothing uncomfortable about it, there's no need to take accountability. Women don't want to spend their lives with men, or at least mature to a point where they don't. That's fine, nobody is saying they should.

Ive dated some shitty men but ive met some shitty women too. I have some amazing male and female friends - the issue i have realised over time - is me ignoring blatant red flags and tolerating things i should have walked away from. Right now im.happy 'dating' myself - getting to kniw mysrlf better and figuring out boundaries. Shitty men (and women) prey on kindness and weakness so yanbu to work on yourself but yabu to tarnish all men with the same brush. The worst of men though can be charming and 'perfect' at first so they can be hard to spot, so i do understand the sentiment. I have bern badly burnt so now i consider mysrlf in a recivery period.

Such predictable answers 😅

These feminist women or women complaining all must be very unattractive or boring nags and are actually desperate for these men, but can’t get them…!
I am attractive and definitely not as you describe (not that it matters either way) and some of my friends are stunning and coming to the same realisation. We also have men and always have, but are now reconsidering.
Saying these women are all fat, ugly and boring and that’s why they have these views is just lazy and immature (hence me asking how old you were) It’s designed to put us back in our boxes and not question things.
Ive seen men with views like yours, who speak like you and i’m sorry but they’re always the quite pathetic ones, the weak men who haven’t had grown up relationships etc-sorry feel a bit mean saying that, but it’s embarrassing.

I didn’t say romantic relationship. I said mutually happy relationship. That includes relationships with your family, platonic friendships with women and friendships with other men. If you had even one functioning relationship you wouldn’t be posting here.

Healthy young men get a sense of relationships and emotional skills from their family and friends.
Other men don’t like sarcastic know it alls either.

I’ve been happily married and a mother since my early twenties and work in a traditionally “male” role, lots of stress, physicality, shift work, fitness which needs maintaining outside of work. My male colleagues go home after a night shift and lie in before coming back to work, I get up to do the school run and organise everyone at home, uniforms, lunches, do the housework, run family errands, train and go back to work. I often joke that I need a wife but it’s not funny really. I’m permanently short of sleep and have a million things in my head. Many of the men making comments couldn’t (or wouldn’t!) do what I do.

My DH on the other hand is a wonderful, kind man, he comes home from a day at work and cooks dinner (I’ve usually planned and shopped for ) and takes the dc to their clubs (I wash and iron the kit, pack the water bottles/ snacks, tell everyone where they need to be and when). But he works in construction, yes, hard physical traditionally male labour but he isn’t faced with the pressure, danger and trauma I am and doesn’t work nearly as many hours to then come home and put himself out for the family. He also earns very much more in that industry than most women with his level of education do. A week in my world would have him citing men’s mental health statistics, he’s not mentally strong for the family in the same way as I am.

@Dogsinsantasuits I think it would be refreshing if the men on this thread would showcase their emotional maturity by being open, curious, and non-judgemental. Calling people ugly, dismissing their views because of this presumed ugliness or age, seems a sign of repressed anger or bitterness, which is not reflective of a balanced and controlled personality, or even of someone in control of their lives.

To be fair, there seem to be some mature and balanced people on this thread, and perhaps they are men but do not feel the need to announce their sex. In reverse, the people who I suspect are men based on their rather regressive views and lack of control of anger might be women who like to support men in the hope of a gold sticker from the patriarchy on their cool girl report card? ;-)

Men are naturally the submissive sex. They join armies, follow orders, take up cult ideologies, stay trapped by the patriarchy and get worried about being rejected by society more than women do.

It is no surprise that the 'bro before hoes' slogan is taking off so well. They have no idea what they're missing out on when they don't surrender to love, mutual respect and mutual attraction with a woman.

IME, most men really don't care though, their egos are made too fragile through social conditioning and selling their souls over to fear and control over pure love and joy. This comes in various forms - nice guys included.

Never wrestle with a pig and don’t play chess with a pigeon. Life is too short to waste time engaging - after all, there are tyres that need changing!

Not sure whether or not you're a man and that's directed at us women, but that is straight out of Trump's playbook - "Piggie".

Good thing I don't have any tyres that need changing. I have so much more! A super smart brain, a good heart, sexy body, pretty face, a career I am passionate about, children, a peaceful home, warmth and people who I adore and who adore me. 😘

I think it’s the third option. And that’s why men don’t tend to think much of middle aged women - because they know they know!

But the women who harp on about how 'men hate us' whilst simultaneously saying they have a blanket dislike of men are kinda hypocritical. It seems to me that they just have a certain level of self righteousness whereby they believe that their feelings are justified but the men that feel the same way are simply misogynists.

It's because they genuinely believe the simplistic theories they read about the patriarchy etc and don't understand that real life is much more nuanced. It's easy nowadays to surround yourself with people that have the same selective outlook and it's clear that many think they speak for women in general when reality the vast majority of women in this country reject modern feminism. There are lots of studies that evidence this.

They’re both fairly well known quotes. It’s suggesting that it’s pretty much pointless engaging with the couple of obvious MRA’s on this thread. They enjoy it too much so it’s a waste of energy typing thoughtful and measured replies to them.

The tyres part was tongue in cheek as one poster has an obsession with women not being able to change a tyre.

If you read the below posts from mumsnet users it shows a completely different side which is always conveniently ignored. It's not hard to grasp how the men in these examples might feel like they have it harder. This is only going to be amplified when they start reading articles harping on about men having the 'privilege' of maintaining their career.

Yes, when the shit hits the fan the man likely is in a better position but he didn't force his wife to prioritise a life of leisure, spa days, and nice lunches. She was happy to do this right up until the relationship broke down, at which point she decided she was the victim when the realisation dawned that a decade of spa days doesn't help one's employability!

My sil is 44, rich and has NEVER had a job, lucky her! She has no trouble filling her day and has a great life.

Dp earns the money then gives it to me. Why would I feel oppressed?

I haven't worked in 8 years and bloody love it! I got to go shopping without ds today and have a long lunch with a friend. Going to the gym now.

My friend is married to the son of a billionaire and sometimes I have to block her on social media because her life is one long holiday.

I dont work, I was able to be a sahm with my sons, both in 30s now. I lunch, dressmake, walk my dogs for miles, spend time with friends and family etc....
I also volunteer for a small homeless charity, something I am so passionate about, being literally close to home.
I feel totally fulfilled!

My DSis married a very high earner and has never worked a day in her life.

My DH works 80 hours a week for a signficant amount of money, which allows me to be a SAHM and indulge myself, allow me to do all of my volunteering and my hobbies.

I work just a few hours a week in a job I love doing, I don’t have to work for financial reasons. I’ve accidentally ended up with a really high earning DH. I enjoy having lots of time to myself, I have hobbies, an amazing spa membership and an extremely fortunate to have some really good friends whom I’m able to see nearly every week.

My SIL is lucky enough to not have to work due to DB’s income. She has nice things, goes out for lots of lunches.

I'm a SAHM who has teenage children and is fortunate to be married to a high earner so I haven't needed to work since having kids. We do have a lifestyle that most people would find impressive.

I choose not to work. DH works really long shifts and odd hours so can be out of the house either days or nights, with each week being different. When the kids are grown I'll go and get some post-sahm work. Maybe in a shop, factory, cafe or something similar.

The funniest post was Monday morning when she started by posting “it’s going to be a long week, hoping the nanny isn’t late” followed by “anyone know a place I can get nails done, not happy with the place I’ve been going as I think they overcharge and wanting a day to pamper myself a bit.”

I feel lucky that I don't need to work. I am not getting any benefits because dh earns enough.

I'm lucky in that I didn't have to carry on working.

I am lucky enough not to work and stay at home with my son, as DH is a high earner. I feel extremely grateful for this every day, and try very hard not to take it for granted.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3764425-To-think-you-are-very-lucky-if-you-dont-have-to-work

I work in 'a man's job' (construction) and have done for almost a decade. It's a lifestyle the vast majority of women don't have a clue about. When they talk about men it always seems to be the executive type. We hear about the lack of female CEOs, never about the lack of female refuse collectors. And after working for Biffa for almost four years I can assure you that I never met a single female refuse collector or another woman that could drive a truck. There were plenty in the office though.

Now many of my friends are having kids and going down to part time work and it's clear many have no intention of ever resuming their career with the same intensity they had in their mid 20s. It's not all roses and many find motherhood a shock, but the men aren't living some blessed existence either. Certainly the men alongside me working 12-13 hour shifts in the rain when things go wrong on HS2 aren't living some cushy existence.

They graft in a way I've not seen many women graft, and they mostly don't whinge about it either. They work hard to earn good money because it's never crossed their mind that they could just marry a high earner and go permanently part time while still enjoying an excellent quality of life.

I'm not 'rooting for men'. There are plenty of issues with them too, but it always seems to be women that play the victim. Especially educated middle class women who have the luxury of doing so. Men just realise that they need to get on with it and they mostly do. And if conscription ever comes in it'll be them stepping up again. From recent threads it's pretty clear that a lot of women will suddenly play the helpless card if the shit hits the fan.

If you look at men in that type of work, it tends to be skilled or unskilled labour, low educational attainment types (and no shade, this is my father and DH, both hard working and capable men earning very well). But their female equivalents from school are carers and childcare workers, beauticians maybe. Very low paid, long hours, emotional labour and dealing with other people’s bodies, snot, shit and piss while receiving no respect from society. Women might not want to stand out in the rain throwing bricks about but men certainly don’t want to do that type of work either.

Yes, I know the quotes. I thought you may have been a MRA. I've not read the whole thread.

Specifically what rights are you referring to in this context?

This makes men sound massively superficial.