To have abruptly limited DD screen time

[shaniahoo]

DD7 has had her own tablet since she was 3. Covid seemed like a good excuse for a lot of screen time because we were hanging around the house so much. Before tablet she was never capable of playing alone for any stretch of time, so it gave us some respite. This turned into dependency over time, because if nobody was available to play, she'd ask for tablet or TV and we would say yes.

Her brother was born last year and we relied on it even more heavily because someone always needed to be with him and if the other parent was at work or cooking or cleaning or whatever then there was nobody available to play, so screen time it was. Now she's getting older we could see her as a phone addicted teen, and we didn't like it, so we put a 45min a day limit on the tablet and only occasionally offering TV as an alternative.

We're all struggling with this change. DD just doesn't know what to do with herself. She wants to play with someone really but in the 3-6 period between school finish and dinner when she would normally have a straight run of screen time, I'm watching DS while waiting for DH to come home from work and then one of us cooks dinner and the other is still with DS. I think screen time was masking how upsetting it is for her that nobody can play with her after school. They are very different ages and can't play together properly and he can't be left. He grabs whatever she's playing with so we can't play together near him, and she's so rough with him when she tries to play with him. Most of her play with him is moving his body parts around roughly and trapping him or slapping him on the head and calling it "patting". I can't say how much of each afternoon is me saying "he doesn't like that" or "let him go". I try to teach her how to play with him in a nice way but she finds it boring.

She's an excellent reader and I suggest things like, well, reading, or puzzle books or art etc and she always says naaah, naaah, to every idea. She ends up either bothering her brother, rolling around on the sofa making noises or deciding she's going to do something elaborate that it's impossible for me to help her with, like junk modelling. The after school period is now a nightmare. Weekends and after dinner are good because there's usually one parent to play. We fit in playdates where we can and making the best of the quality time together we do have. But I'm wondering if we've made the wrong decision. She's struggling so much with having to entertain herself it's making all our lives so difficult. Should we just give the screen time back? Or is there a chance she could learn and adapt and become good at finding her own fun?

Do they have different bed times? IMO a 7 year old should be capable of understanding that a toddler sibling won't follow the rules of the game and not to throw a fit and scream about it. My eldest would get annoyed and would come and 'mum! He ruined my game!' to me but snatching hard enough to knock over and screaming in ears is OTT

Could she stay up an hour later for some special one on one play time every day, but to get that she has to try and play nicely with her brother, empathise that little kids can be annoying and don't follow the rules but she can't kick off at him for it, she's certainly getting to an age where she can understand she cant overreact like that (assuming no additional needs)

What about games/activites both could do with you intervening to ensure DS doesnt ruin it for DD? painting, skittles, building blocks, play doh, tea parties etc. Yes DS will try and go after what DD has but if he has his own to join in then you sit between them and keep him from grabbing her stuff

Teach them to play hide and seek together, DS maybe too small to hide but can definitely seek, teach them to play it together by being on DSs team until he understands the concept of covering eyes, 'counting' and going to find

DS is small, impulsive and hasn't yet learnt not to 'ruin' things for your DD, but if you start now then in a year they'll be able to play nicely without much supervision.

I have a similar age gap (~1 year bigger) and a lot of it is getting the eldest to understand what's normal (albeit annoying) for their younger siblings age and teaching them understanding and patience

If she is 7 then she certainly wasn't 3 during covid. It sounds like you are making excuses for lazy parenting. It also sounds like you are not giving her enough attention because you're both fussing over your toddler. You need to find a way to teach your kids to play together or at least next to each other. Why haven't you put out some drawing materials for her or crafts? You can sit at the table with her and the toddler on your knee so he can't get to her. She doesnt know how to interact with her little brother because you haven't taught her. Can't you include her in "teaching" him how to play? Or get her to read him a story? You've made a good decision taking the tablet away, now put the work in and soon it will become easier with DC.

Yeah just did the maths there too. My son was 3 in Covid and is 9 now so that’s not right.

it’s not exactly the point but it sounds like the screens got much worse when you had another child. Many parents understand how difficult that is but you still can’t really give your child a tablet for many hours a day. You have to figure out another way - either be busier outside the house, accept your toddler needs to also learn to be happy on his own and ignore some of the tantrums, use any number of strategies suggested here, whatever.

Of course you have free will and can give in and let your 7 year old be in charge. Plenty of families do that. But when she’s in high school it’s going to be much, much worse.

At literal bare minimum make sure it’s not YouTube or social media and she’s in the room with you so you know what she’s doing.

I think the OP is getting an unfair bashing on here with all the comments about neglect.

I'm older and I've been working with children for almost 35 years.
I've seen the rise in our use of tech in the last 10/15 years absolutely change the landscape of parenting, bringing a whole load of new circumstances to navigate that previous generations of parents never had to deal with. Tablet and internet usage with small children is a minefield.

I think the OP has has been honest enough to admit mistakes and is quite brave seeking help on here ( the judgement is off the scale)

To put my two cents in, I'd say you've had some good suggestions here and I'd advise you to hang in a bit longer.
Don't go back to reliance on the tablet, DD is currently in a transition phase and it's normal that she's pushing back; keep at it with the separate play areas, keep providing table top activities for her, soon something will catch her attention and I'm sure there will be a breakthrough soon in both of their independence as they get older .

We have a similar age gap, well I think we do but your daughters age and covid isn’t correct, however we aren’t a screen heav family, so when our youngest came along our son already independent play skills. We would however still put the baby in a playpen, you say you don’t have room for one, however you have a dining room, so can you just put a babygate up so you can move between the two rooms. As surely all the rooms are baby proof anyway, so you popping in every few minutes is fine.

Independent play takes a long time for children to develop, I imagine it takes longer in older children. With independent play you would normally have open ended toys, join in yourself and every so often opt out for 2-5 minutes until you can slowly increase the time. Surely you’re already doing this with your son?

Your daughter looks like she hasn’t been given the opportunity to learn indepdent play, it won’t develop in just a few weeks, it will take a long time. On top of that she knows to seek attention she has to shout, hit and scream, so thats how she’ll continue until a healthy path to attention is available to her.

She is also likely bored, why don’t you have say two days a week where you go to a local park after school, rather than going home?

This.
@shaniahoo Stay firm with the tablet. Keep offering her activities, and if she says no, just let her go and be bored, or give her a housework job to do.

Give her one-to-one attention as much as you and DH can, after brother is in bed, or at weekends.
Encourage her friends to come round and play with her.

You say that she resorts to rolling on the floor annoying her brother - sometimes it is fine for them to play physical games, but be very, very firm about her not hurting him.

Above all - remember this phase will pass, in 6 months it will all be different, and in another 6 months it will all have changed again.

OK, so that's what you need help with.

First setting a realistic goal (we only do Saturday morning cartoons and a film on Sunday so we have habits and expectations. Because it's just a blanket No during the week, we avoid the whining for it).

What works for me is saying "go and play in your room or I'll give a chore (like putting away laundry, wiping the table, hoovering, dusting). Basically anything that shows having the choice to do something fun when bored rsther than having to do soemthing truly boring is a luxury).

It doesn't matter if you end up re-doing the task. The task isn't the point.

When younger, we also used the naughty step and confiscating stuff. Do X or you'll be on the step. Get off the step and I'll take X toy.

We haven't had to do it in years, but once you find a technique and never give in, you start being able to parent with The Look because they know that you mean business. Sorry if that's not helpful.

Don’t give in. She’ll adapt. Cant you have someone over after school for play dates. I had a 5 year old with a baby & I found having a friend over after school was easier. Also any after school club she can join or any clubs out of school. You can have a friend over once a week & a club once a week will ease the pressure.

OP I am another mother who let my child have a tablet when our 2nd was born. My oldest is younger than yours. We actually just took it off her completely, without warning, pretending it is lost. I hated myself for giving it to her in the first place.

My 2nd child is 13 months! I've tried to teach the kids that they need to share certain toys, so while the kitchen is technically my daughters, they do share that now. Some toys I don't make them share because I think thats important too. But I tried to make my daughter realise if she shares a toy with him, it'll make play time more fun and also allow us to have more time for an activity because he is distracted with the toy. We also try to include him in some games, she's the doctor, I'm the nurse, he's the patient. Or she's the mammy, he's the daddy and I'm the baby. I would try coax him into the high chair. Is there any snacks he enjoys that he would nibble on sitting in it while ye do some activity? Anything to get him used to sitting in it calmly!

When the Spring comes it'll get easier because you will be able to put him in the buggy and go somewhere more aimed for your daughter and talk to her on the way there.

I disagree with you that your youngest can't be taught boundaries yet. He absolutely can. If it was something dangerous like touching a fireplace or pulling down the Christmas tree, I imagine you'd be more open to teaching him no.

A parenting post in here is always going to open up a lot of criticism and feedback, but I just wanted to say well done you for reducing the tablet use and for realising you want to try fix it. Stick with it, you'll get there and feel all the better for it.

I have a very similar age gap - almost 6 year old and a 14 month old (just). Agree it is hard to juggle it and my older child constantly wants play dates for entertainment. We’ve never allowed tablets unless on aeroplanes so she knows not to ask. Tv did definitely increase in the months after having a new baby but I try to be mindful of how much it’s on. I’ve found that doing activities with the older child at a table helps, like a game or colouring or crafts etc, because it’s out of reach for the baby, or letting her be independent with things like baking. Also allowing the 14 month old to be a little playful (aka destructive) with their age appropriate toys, such as the toy kitchen and duplo etc, and promising the older child that I’ll help tidy any mess the baby makes (lots!) The baby crawls around and occupies herself a lot especially when we’re surrounded by their toys and that’s when I can have time to do tasks with the older child. Also, I read a parenting book which mentioned the importance of having ‘special time’ 1:1 with your children, every day if possible but at least regularly. It’s much more important apparently for the elder child who remembers what life was like before the sibling came along. So when possible once a week I take the elder child out for some 1:1 time, usually my free coffee or to the shops or something, doesn’t have to be expensive, just some time for her to spend just with me without her sibling. Good luck OP, I’ve definitely found going from 1 - 2 harder than 0 - 1!!

I think some, even a lot of this is about understanding what’s required of a parent to be an effective parent.

Your baby does not need your undivided attention other than for a small amount of time each day.

Your older child doesn’t need you to play with her. She wants it, she doesn’t need it and ideally she shouldn’t get it other than momentarily.

You can’t give the second child as much time as you gave the first, that’s not how life works and that’s nothing to feel guilty about.

Your two children aren’t individual units entitled to have life as they each need/want it. They are siblings, there are two of them, they have to know that they’re not only children around whom the family revolves.

It’s your job to be a parent, not a playmate. You’re an adult, not a child. Your children learn to play alone, with each other, with friends, not at all.

It’s normal to be bored. It’s normal to act up out of boredom. It’s normal to bicker with your sibling. It’s normal for parents to tear their hair out. All this is normal. It’s not normal to have zero friction, it’s not normal for a child to be entertained all the time.

You have to focus on the basics of parenting first: food, shelter, hygiene, education, health. This means physical health as much as mental. Get your eldest child out of the house as much as possible expending energy: swimming, gymnastics, dance, sports. Don’t be lazy. By the time you’ve done this after school two or three times a week there will be no time for screens, plus she will grow and learn something. No bad comes of these things. Only good.

You don’t actually have to do much. They’re small children, they don’t need much. You just need to shift your mindset.

It's not bashing you, for someone who's probably either is or has been a parent themselves to point out that it's extremely unusual not to be able to let a toddler play for a while on their own. Do you seriously do NO housework that takes longer than 2 mins including preparing food unless there is another adult at home? Maybe TMI, but I'm sometimes on the loo for longer than that!

What I’m reading is you will do anything to AVOID him having a tantrum, and if he has a tantrum you GIVE IN to him. What do you think that is teaching him? Having tantrums = getting his way. op, you need to parent your kids. Not avoid tantrums or play into them.

“If she is 7 then she certainly wasn't 3 during covid.”

There were still Covid restrictions in 2021, many people were still wfh full time as offices were closed (mine was and my husband’s was), schools were shut for the first few months of 2021. Things didn’t start getting back to normal until the summer months. It’s possible that a child who is currently 7, was 3 during the 2021 covid restrictions.

However I completely agree that op is making a lot of excuses and shying away from discipline and dealing with tantrums etc.

Probably! None of us were played with the way kids are played with these days. I’m all for quality time - of course you shouldn’t ignore your kid all day - but there is such value in being bored and learning to entertain yourself. She will probably hate it and you have to learn to ignore the whining! I think some posters have suggested some redirection activities - any she can do on her own are winners. :-)

I usually hate it when people on MN say an OP is getting a hard time on a thread. But in this case @shaniahooI think you really are getting a hard time. Nothing in your posts suggest to me that you are favouring your son over your daughter. I think you’ve got a complicated situation. Your little one is at a tricky age: mobile, interested in everything, needing almost constant supervision, but not old enough to play with his sibling. Your DD is used to a screen for entertainment and in its absence relies on you. I think it’s great that you are now limiting her screen time and I would probably limit it further TBH.

It’s very important for your DD to learn to occupy herself independently. She definitely shouldn’t expect her parents to play with her constantly. I don’t remember my parents playing with me at all when I was 7 and I certainly wasn’t neglected! Your DD may need some guidance in developing the skills of playing independently but that’s something I would concentrate on in your shoes. Since she likes to read, can you get her excited about a particular book or series of books? Something she could read on her own, then write her own similar stories or draw illustrations, etc. Trips to the library for more books and more inspiration. PPs have offered other good suggestions as well.

I think when your DS gets a bit older and your DD starts to become a little more independent, things will become easier. Probably cold comfort when you’re in the trenches! But this too shall pass.

I think "giving in" to a tantrum in this case would be allowing him to have the forbidden object. Which I don't do. I respond to his big feelings yes. I don't think that's giving in? I don't think you can train a toddler to not want your attention by just ignoring them.

Yep she was 3 in 2021 and we kept ourselves home longer than most other people around us, we wanted to stay safe.

Honestly no not really. I put him in his cot to go to the toilet but he starts to cry after about a minute in there. I can do extremely simple food prep that can be done in sort of 1 minute increments. Because he's not really safe in the living room for longer than that and I can't see him when in the kitchen, and there's no room in the kitchen for any sort of baby container. The living room is fairly baby proofed but he climbs onto the sofa and falls off it. So I have to keep coming and going.

Yes, I appreciate that but a 3 year old would usually be in nursery most of the time and by 2021 most people had figured out how to cope with working and a child at home. They had had 3 years practice by that point.

I’m going to say it - Why aren’t you bringing these children together?

The older one needs to find games they can play together.

You need to get them to share and play nice -

They can all help cook dinner even if it’s whisking and egg or stirring flour

You seem intent on keeping them apart and playing separately.

I was replying to your statement that she couldn’t possibly have been 3 - she could have.

This is a direct result of you pandering to his every tantrum. Congratulations.

So what if he cries? What’s wrong with that?

My goodness, woman! How do you live like this?! I’m feeling claustrophobic hostage type feelings just listening to you! You “respond to his big feelings”, but totally ignore your other child for 3 hours every day by plonking her in front of an iPad? You think the name of the game is training a toddler to not want attention, rather than training a toddler to understand that he must wait for attention? Honestly this is sounding like what YOU can cope with, in terms of whining or crying, rather than what’s best for either child. Are you sure all this is because you can’t handle noise or competing demands for attention?

That’s exactly what it is. She chose the easy life - daughter in front of an iPad and catering to every tantrum, and now she suddenly has regrets. Just not too many, because she’s not willing to change her ways that much.