To have abruptly limited DD screen time

[shaniahoo]

DD7 has had her own tablet since she was 3. Covid seemed like a good excuse for a lot of screen time because we were hanging around the house so much. Before tablet she was never capable of playing alone for any stretch of time, so it gave us some respite. This turned into dependency over time, because if nobody was available to play, she'd ask for tablet or TV and we would say yes.

Her brother was born last year and we relied on it even more heavily because someone always needed to be with him and if the other parent was at work or cooking or cleaning or whatever then there was nobody available to play, so screen time it was. Now she's getting older we could see her as a phone addicted teen, and we didn't like it, so we put a 45min a day limit on the tablet and only occasionally offering TV as an alternative.

We're all struggling with this change. DD just doesn't know what to do with herself. She wants to play with someone really but in the 3-6 period between school finish and dinner when she would normally have a straight run of screen time, I'm watching DS while waiting for DH to come home from work and then one of us cooks dinner and the other is still with DS. I think screen time was masking how upsetting it is for her that nobody can play with her after school. They are very different ages and can't play together properly and he can't be left. He grabs whatever she's playing with so we can't play together near him, and she's so rough with him when she tries to play with him. Most of her play with him is moving his body parts around roughly and trapping him or slapping him on the head and calling it "patting". I can't say how much of each afternoon is me saying "he doesn't like that" or "let him go". I try to teach her how to play with him in a nice way but she finds it boring.

She's an excellent reader and I suggest things like, well, reading, or puzzle books or art etc and she always says naaah, naaah, to every idea. She ends up either bothering her brother, rolling around on the sofa making noises or deciding she's going to do something elaborate that it's impossible for me to help her with, like junk modelling. The after school period is now a nightmare. Weekends and after dinner are good because there's usually one parent to play. We fit in playdates where we can and making the best of the quality time together we do have. But I'm wondering if we've made the wrong decision. She's struggling so much with having to entertain herself it's making all our lives so difficult. Should we just give the screen time back? Or is there a chance she could learn and adapt and become good at finding her own fun?

You need to enforce boundaries with him or it’ll get worse.

You won’t. Because your son is your favourite.

He is not old enough to learn he's not allowed certain things. I've been gently removing him from pulling up on the radiator pipes since he learned how to pull up, but he still pulls up on them. He can't learn that kind of "boundary" yet, he's too young.

You can (and must) entertain both at once. We have suggested so many ways of doing this - read back over the thread.

I think you need to get out of the mindset that you're in a uniquely challenging situation. 2 children, with limited budget and space, is actually the most common type of family in this country! We've all done it so listen to what's worked for us and have faith it'll work.

This is not me being nasty. This is me trying to reassure you.

Yes, he can. You’re just making another excuse.

If he comes over while you’re playing with her - “no”, and remove him from the situation. If he comes back? Do it again. If he throws a tantrum, ignore.

How do you think children learn? It doesn’t magically start when they turn 2. It’s constant, and you’ve taught him that he can do what he wants.

I didn't say every single person I have replied to is a person who was being nasty. I also see you in particular have made lots of replies to the thread and I haven't connected them all together in my head. I was reacting to you saying I'm neglecting DD. Assuming you were a new poster sticking the knife in.

Do you not think I already do that a hundred times a day with other things he's not allowed? He has never once learned that there is an item he's not allowed to touch. He's going to be even less capable of learning that he's not allowed to touch DD's toys IN GENERAL. He doesn't have a concept of ownership.

I haven't rtft so apologies if these ideas have come out already.

Get outside. DS in pram, DD has a spotters "list" of things to find - a pinecone, a white flower, a feather, a toadstool etc.Take hot chocolate in a flask as a treat for a completed or nearly completed list. They would also both enjoy a playground but I am sure you already do that!

Indoors, there are activities that should hold both kids' attention or that can be adapted. Playdoh is great for baby, and DD might enjoy a playdoh hairdresser or whatever. We used to make our own edible playdoh from smooth peanut butter, honey, and powdered milk. You can decorate with sprinkles or cake decorations - make teddies or whatever - and eat them. DS gets his own chunk to play with and eat.

You can also grade this activity - DS gets playdoh, DD can use plasticene or even fimo which you can then harden into permanent models.

Colouring books are wonderful and very relaxing for adults too. You and DD can colour and DS can bang his sticklebricks or whatever at the table, and have crayons and paper. DD can show him how to make the first letter of his name (obviously you will have to tell her it will take hundreds of tries, but how proud will she be?)

She could write books for DS. My son wrote and illustrated about 30 books for my daughter. We still have them and she's 15. Again, the pride in writing and then sharing the story as the bedtime story was immense.

Playtime - involve DS. DD is the doctor, you are the nurse and DS is the patient. DD is the teacher, you and DS are the students.

DS might be "wearable" still for short periods? Which would allow you to cook with DD.

As a playpen when mine were little we used a travel cot. Have you room for that? Useful for moments when you can't otherwise keep him safe.

Just "thanks for the suggestions" would be fine rather than this "you in particular" stuff. You've come on a forum to ask for help, I've tried to give it. The only one being nasty and swearing is you. I'll leave you to it, good luck.

@shaniahoo I can quite confidently tell you that ignoring a child who is crying because they cannot get their own way is not neglect. Far from it.
You are neglecting your daughter here. And you refuse to see it. She's 7, not 17!

Good for you for trying to reduce screen time.

A 7 year old playing with a one year old is only ever going to be a short-lived thing as the age gap is too wide and the play will be unfulfilling for your 7 year old.

Learning to play independently at age 7 after years of being allowed so much screen time is going to be tricky and I feel you will need to work hard on it. It rewires the brain and that is very hard to undo. You may never undo the damage fully.

You may need to model independent play for her- have lots of toys which can be used alone- lego, dolls, craft materials, small word toys like playmobil or sylavanian families, playdough etc. then play with her for a short time then leave her to continue the play alone.

I’m about to do this with one of my twins. First of all don’t beat yourself up too much – I’m a firm believer that kids are who they are and there’s only so much we can do to influence their nature.

Case in point, my 7yr old twins, who have had exactly the same upbringing, exposure and rules to screen time growing up – one is addicted and sounds much like yours (has never been able to play alone, very creative, great at reading etc, but won’t do anything without a buddy). The other prefers playing by themselves and isn’t fussed with screens. Will watch an episode of something on occasion or join a game of MarioKart once in a blue moon.

Surely they can entertain each other, being twins? I wish! Non-screen twin most often doesn’t want a buddy, lest her imaginary games be ruined.

Anyway, twins, house renovation, full time work and Covid have got us here, so I think it’s time to pull the plug. It will be hard, but it’s worth it.

The hardest part will be the mornings as they wake up consistently at 6am. And I am barely conscious til 8.

"I'm watching DS while waiting for DH to come home from work and then one of us cooks dinner and the other is still with DS."

"She ends up either bothering her brother, rolling around on the sofa making noises or deciding she's going to do something elaborate that it's impossible for me to help her with, like junk modelling."

I'm going to be blunt here OP, she's bothering her brother because

1. he comes first
2. she doesn't know what to do with herself without the screen

I know he's of an age where it's difficult to contain him, but if that is the case, you need to spend time teaching DD to have some hobbies she can do alone, or largely alone, during that time. Is there something you or your husband could get her into at a time when the other could have DS? I think at 7 I was getting into weaving and embroidery, I'd had a dolls house for some time and would play with that for hours, I still played with dolls and did Lego for hours too.

I think you need to be really positive about her having some other hobbies that she can sit and do. Also you sound like you are on your own with DS during the day, so I assume you leave him for a few mins to make food and go to the loo. After DD is home, you can presumably leave DS for a few mins to help DD. Try to big those minutes up so that DD feels she is a big girl being mainly independent, rather than not having you when she needs you. So if she is doing an activity where she needs you to help with a bit for a few minutes, have a safe space to put DS for those few minutes.

For example, if she got into embroidery, but needed help trying off the ends, have somewhere you can put him when DD needs thread ends tying off. Even if he cries, it wouldn't hurt him to cry for two minutes while you tie a knot or two for DD, but DD would be more likely to feel that she was being a big girl doing a craft that adults do mostly on her own, rather than feeling that she was having to stay out of your way for her brother, which is really what is happening now.

Some of the people on this thread have been a little bit harsh - though their basic view that you can do this is right! It’s a lot of effort and not easy, but it will get a lot easier.

good ideas:
outdoors as people have said. I would take them to the playground every single day after school.
bubbles, dancing, sofa climbing are also good and work on a rainy day
good quality tv is a good iPad alternative
Imaginative play (fairies etc) needs to be brought back here not used up on school run.

then I think you HAVE to get at least one kid and ideally both to be prepared to play at the table. The “he won’t go in a high chair” thing is a problem I would really try to fix as loads of activities that work well for them to do jointly will be best with him “locked” in a high chair eg colouring, play doh etc.

but if you can’t fix that quite yet then you need to have her play at the table so he can’t see all the toys. Lots of things can be done at the table eg my older kid built blocks on our table. Lego can be done at table. Sylvanians can be done at table. Etc. then you sit with her at table while a lot bending down to pass toddler stuff or chat to him. He needs to have good independent play toys to help with this. It is a fairly exhausting process as you have to pay BOTH loads of attention.

finally, I suggest getting the older kid a phoenix subscription - in our experience that gets you 30-60 mins a week of enjoyable reading and it comes in the post so it’s waiting for them after school on a Friday.

Because you eventually cave and neglect your daughter in favour of him.

You appear to be blaming me for my toddler's developmental inability to understand possession of objects.
Are you just like, having fun? Like let's choose a thread and bash the OP as much as possible for a laugh? I had a look back over the thread because I thought lots of people were being mean to me but it was mainly just you, actually. Over and over again.

I’m just saying it as it is. It’s not “nasty” or “mean”, it’s just the facts of the situation.

He is absolutely capable of being left to play for half an hour while you spend time with your daughter. You have come up with multiple reasons why he can’t be, even going as far as calling basic psychology “bullshit”. You won’t do it, which is fine, it’s your choice. You then admit that even when there are two of you at home, you’re giving your full attention to your son instead of your daughter. You stuck her in front of a screen to keep her quiet, and say that she “makes noises” and attempts to get your attention when she’s playing, but you don’t actually say what you do to give her your attention. Do you spend weekends with her? Without him?

I am a child psychologist and I have never known a "free range", mobile 14 month old who could be left to play alone for half an hour.

Maybe left under supervision in a playpen beside you, but not left while you fully focus elsewhere.

He absolutely could be in a playpen in the same room with some duplo or something similar while OP plays with her daughter. She will not do this.

My daughter plays with the iPad regularly - it’s not even switched on… she pretends to be her nursery teacher logging their lunch etc.

we keep iPads strictly for travelling (plane, train, long automobile rides) but the tv is a shared activity at the weekend or before bed. She’ll watch half an hour of cartoons while she eats supper and also watches tv during her brother’s nap time at the weekend (which allows me to clear up and then have some down time with her).

at 7 she should be able to amuse herself with toys / dolls/ crafts and also join in with cooking etc. she needs to be weaned off. You’ll probably find it easier to go cold turkey to begin with then reintroduce for specific times.

Well done on removing the screen time. I wonder if you can set up something on the floor for your toddler to explore (age appropriate things) and then sit down and start doing something at the table - glitter gel or gems, special pens etc or anything that you think may attract your daughter and just see if she joins you? Say you’re making something for grandma or someone. I wonder if that would work to engage her…

OP: job for today.
Get DD to make a book for DS for his Christmas present.
And maybe a picture you can frame for granny?

Why on earth should her daughter be making something for the son?! Just to show her that she really means nothing to her mum?!

I found 14 months a difficult age as a parent because it's the boundary between "just" keeping them alive and actively parenting which I know sounds odd/ flippant put like that but they are now of an age where they can learn, they do need boundaries, you can set expectations. Yes, it takes time and is hard but they are not fully a baby any more.

This is so true. My daughter (3) has to do craft / games at the table if they have small parts. Our son (14m) will crawl around and ‘play’ with various toys- his main game is pulling everything out of the toy kitchen.

We also let her play in her bedroom with small toys when I’m busy upstairs. She has a baby gate on her room so her brother can’t get in (even though he wants to) and has to play in my room or on the landing.

I have 2 children - one is 14 months and the other is 3. Yes it’s hard to entertain both - 14 month olds just love to cause havoc - pulling, biting, grabbing etc… it doesn’t last long and there are work arounds. If I’m helping my daughter do a craft at the table and baby is crying I can’t hold him on my knee while
i I help her or pop him in the highchair with a snack and I’ve easily got 10 mins to help her.

Do you have children?

My kids fully understand that a baby is too young to buy presents. But will enjoy getting presents.
My kids buy each other gifts and have done for years.
I think you are getting a bit fixated tbh.