To have abruptly limited DD screen time

[shaniahoo]

DD7 has had her own tablet since she was 3. Covid seemed like a good excuse for a lot of screen time because we were hanging around the house so much. Before tablet she was never capable of playing alone for any stretch of time, so it gave us some respite. This turned into dependency over time, because if nobody was available to play, she'd ask for tablet or TV and we would say yes.

Her brother was born last year and we relied on it even more heavily because someone always needed to be with him and if the other parent was at work or cooking or cleaning or whatever then there was nobody available to play, so screen time it was. Now she's getting older we could see her as a phone addicted teen, and we didn't like it, so we put a 45min a day limit on the tablet and only occasionally offering TV as an alternative.

We're all struggling with this change. DD just doesn't know what to do with herself. She wants to play with someone really but in the 3-6 period between school finish and dinner when she would normally have a straight run of screen time, I'm watching DS while waiting for DH to come home from work and then one of us cooks dinner and the other is still with DS. I think screen time was masking how upsetting it is for her that nobody can play with her after school. They are very different ages and can't play together properly and he can't be left. He grabs whatever she's playing with so we can't play together near him, and she's so rough with him when she tries to play with him. Most of her play with him is moving his body parts around roughly and trapping him or slapping him on the head and calling it "patting". I can't say how much of each afternoon is me saying "he doesn't like that" or "let him go". I try to teach her how to play with him in a nice way but she finds it boring.

She's an excellent reader and I suggest things like, well, reading, or puzzle books or art etc and she always says naaah, naaah, to every idea. She ends up either bothering her brother, rolling around on the sofa making noises or deciding she's going to do something elaborate that it's impossible for me to help her with, like junk modelling. The after school period is now a nightmare. Weekends and after dinner are good because there's usually one parent to play. We fit in playdates where we can and making the best of the quality time together we do have. But I'm wondering if we've made the wrong decision. She's struggling so much with having to entertain herself it's making all our lives so difficult. Should we just give the screen time back? Or is there a chance she could learn and adapt and become good at finding her own fun?

Agreed. Just really limit the iPad now unless for emergencies and use the tv more. There is great stuff on cbeebies..avoid YouTube. Just keep going.

Well done. Don’t give in, it will get easier when they can play outside and go to the garden, playground and park. Some great ideas on this thread. Definitely encourage more gently playing together. My children have the same age gap from ages 3 and 9 they played lots together.

I appreciate your are struggling but this is a problem that you created and you owe it to your daughter to fix it.

Your son is 14 months old, why does one parent need to be constantly supervising only him? One person can watch both children. And most importantly interact with both children, not just sling one to the side holding an iPad. How do you think that makes her feel?

All you can do is offer her things to do, if she doesn’t want to do any of them then she’ll have to deal with boredom. Ask her to help you cook dinner, to be honest at 14 months your DS could also help with a Montessori cooking set. Get them both involved in age appropriate crafts at the table. Hand her a good book when she says she’s bored and tell her to read it, subscribe to comics or factual magazines that come in the post so it has some novelty. Get some Lego out in her bedroom with the door closed so DS can’t disturb her.

She just basically needs to wean off a screen addiction. It’s difficult but she will get there.

you have to teach your DD how to play alone - that's skill that needs to be taught

Please don’t revert back. Mine is younger than yours and has less screen time in general but does massively struggle with independent play. But recently has gotten much better at it, as he’s sort of realised he doesn’t have much choice. I also have a toddler. Sometimes we’ve set a timer for independent play, so say 20 mins and this has really helped him develop the skill for it as he actively looks for things to do. And if that is rolling around or jumping on the sofa, that’s fine. Recently I bought a little ‘crafts box’, we went to the shops together and he picked out loads of things and put it in a box all together. He will make something and I’ll ’ooh ahh’ over it later when he presents me with papers stuck together with pipe cleaners sticking out of them. This comes out when I really can’t be available to play along.

She’s never learnt to play independently because of the screens.
Most of my toy playing as a child was just me, my toys and my imagination (toy ponies kept me busy for hours and hours). Mum would walk past and hear me waffling away to myself.

Kids have lost that ability and it’s incredibly sad.

Unfortunately you have caused this problem with the screen use. You need to try and encourage her to do some things on her own- can she set up some crafts at the kitchen table while you cook? So she’s with you and can chat but can be independent with what she’s doing?

I think there’s a bigger issue than the screen time here?

You’re essentially saying that for three hours a day she’s being left to just do whatever she can, because you can’t give her your full attention? Or any attention?

Both children need more "stuff" that they can access.

At 14mo your ds can have a corner with engaging toys he can fidget with.

For your dd, have a "stationery corner" - this has been a game changer for my dd. Colour pencils, paints and brushes, coloured paper and tissue, stickers, scissors, glue etc all tidy in an ikea drawer set. She goes straight there whenever she's free and starts making something.

Whatever dd is playing with, let her do it on the dining table so DS can't mess with it.

Also, I 100% agree with getting dd to food prep. Get those child safe knives and child safe peeler from Amazon, my 5yo has been using them for years. DS can be playing with his fidget toys on the kitchen floor while DD is helping you.

And they can definitely play together, you just have to buy things that work.

We have a two-microphone karaoke set: your dd can sing karaoke and your ds can babble at the same time.

When your DS turns 2yo, things will get a bit easier and your DD can boss him around a bit.

In the meantime, you need more "stuff".

I also think your dd must feel starved of attention

Well done for limiting her screen time! It's a massive change for everyone in the family and it will take time to adapt. I have a DS who struggles to entertain himself. He will have days where he spends ages playing with Lego or reading the Beano, and others where he just doesn't know what to do with himself.

In my experience, two children with big age gaps can still play together. My eldest DC used to play with my youngest (6 year age gap) a lot when they were 7 and 1 year old. The games were very simple physical games (basic version of hide and seek, filling a basket with stuffed toys and emptying it etc.) but they could play for quite a bit together. Your DD will maybe discover ways of playing with her brother if she doesn't have the alternative of isolating herself behind a screen.

If you're struggling in the house, can you get them togged up warm and head to the beach, woods, playground, park?

Im an outdoor girly and sometimes my kids drive me nuts when we are at home but we have a riot once we head out somewhere.

My son loves YouTube on the tv but ive always been pretty strict so he has learned to keep his mouth shut and amuse himself once its time to turn it off. I know its hard but you are doing her a kindness (even if you dont feel like it now!)

Can you get out for a nice walk with the pushchair and a bike/scooter straight from school and grab bread/milk/whatever you need in this time (on days where it isnt raining, which to be fair is around 50% atm? That will kill an hour? That takes you to 4pm, you could all play on the floor together, perhaps some colouring/crafting both kids could do? And between 5 and 6 you could have your TV time (not ipad) to allow you to sort dinner?

I have an almost 4 year old and 13 month old- we spend a huge amount of time on the floor playing with different toys every 10 minutes. Exhausting but it is what it is!
I try and prepare dinner while my daughter is at preschool eg spag bol I'll make while 13 month old is napping so I don't have to faff around trying to make dinner when they are both home.

You'll get there, sounds like you all need a bit more practice but you'll find a rhythm.

I agree. It's sad for the dd.

Not quite the same age gap but when my ds was 14mo my dd was about to turn 5yo - I was actually giving my older one way more attention than my younger one because she needed to talk about her school friendships etc, and just generally ask me random questions about the world, whereas ds just needed to sit with some building blocks and a sippy cup.

Who is having these heart-to-hearts with op's dd, when are they happening?

Limiting screen time is never a bad thing so please don't worry. Yes it Will be difficult at first but you need to persevere. Children NEED to feel boredom at times, it sparks creativity. I have a DD7 too and a DS5 and we only allow tablet use for going on holiday/long car journeys. We have very limited screen time in the week, perhaps 30 min after school whilst they wind down and have a snack (TV only) and weekends are limited to a small amount in the mornings and then either a family movie or a family game of Mario kart and strictly no YouTube ever. My children don't play together particularly well, my DS prefers to be outside in all weathers whereas my DD is very creative and although it can be tough keeping them both happy and giving them equal time, for me the benefits of minimal screen time far outweigh this. Screens should never be given to cure boredom. I have seen the impact of too much screen time on older children within our family and it is heartbreaking.

I appreciate the bit of tough love here and agree we've created the problem with the screens. None of this is her fault.
It is definitely a problem that I don't feel I can give her much attention when I've also got DS. I don't think I'm really exaggerating with how difficult it is though to play with both at once. Most things she likes to play with are quite breakable or have small parts or he would just ruin it. Like for example we couldn't make a little town together on the floor because he would start moving all the pieces or putting them in his mouth, and she gets VERY angry when he so much as touches something of hers. They cannot both do baking or crafts together! He's too young! We have a fence dividing the room but we struggle even to e.g. have her putting together a marble run on one side of it because he stands at the fence screaming and grabbing and having a complete tantrum because something is happening on the other side. That's why I encourage activities she can do at the dining table out of his way, and I'm ALWAYS happy to stay close and see what she's doing and help intermittently but she always refuses these sorts of activities.

I think being a kid is tough these days, with so many parents ready to hand over parenting to a screen. I’ve got adhd and I’m 46c growing up as a c kid we had a Nintendo boy that was mostly for winter /wet weekend play and the rest of the time we would beer playing out, climbing trees, riding bikes, roller skating, poking a dead squirrel with a stick, playing pooh sticks, on the park, doing Roy Polys down the hill, playing rovers etc. inside was Lego, books, watching a movie, baking, crafting, singing/making up dances, playing musical instruments. Being bored is a huge gift in life, it’s how you tap into your imagination and my isolation is how I started writing. Unfortunately you have completely bypassed every drop of that awesome childhood stuff that by going in at the very start with the digital equivalent to heroin. Very little will ever come close and there is a reason why screen addiction and porn exposure and addiction is so harmful in children.

you need to get her out of the house every day no matter how wet and miserable it is. Your dad can go in a pram and even if it’s just a 20 minutes walk, it will do her good. Then get her crafting, reading, watching movies, ANYTHING. Then I’d say for every 15 minutes she can keep herself entertained, I’d let her go on a gaming system that teaches basics of coding, or digital gaming system ( not a tablet with YouTube etc, a Wii/ switch/gameboy/ps type thing that requires actual button/analogue stick input to use it with zero internet access) for 5 minutes up to a max of 20 minutes, twice a week and see how she goes.

I’m not surprised she refuses? Gently, this is something you should have considered before having a second child? Let him scream and cry, you need to give her some more attention.

I think you made this change without a plan.

You need to look this up and educate yourself on some activities that she’ll be interested in.

One of mine liked her keyboard - cheap - and I would send her your to practice.
One liked football - he would bounce the ball outside
One liked art and reading

We have bored games to play - try connect 4 or card games - you can play with her and watch the baby - get an extra set and let him play with those.

They cannot both do baking or crafts together! He's too young!

I don't think anyone suggested that op. You need to cook and do crafts with your dd. Your ds needs to learn to entertain himself.

Do you have a toy kitchen? Ds can play at that while you and dd do the real cooking.

Your dd needs more of your attention. She needs to be doing stuff with you to create the space to talk to you about how her school day went.

On any typical afternoon at our house, I'm deep in conversation with my 5yo dd about something she learnt about at school or a disagreement in the playground or whatever - ds is tinkering with his toy kitchen and presents us with a plate of toy food - dd and I both say "oh wow thanks little bro" and then carry on our conversation.

I can't imagine a world where my younger ds has all my attention and my older dd none. Surely a 7yo needs a lot of emotional guidance compared to a 14mo who basically just needs his physical needs met and to have stuff to mess with.

One person did suggest that. DS is too young to see what we're doing and have fun by copying and feeling like he's doing it himself too e.g. pretending to cook. He just screams and grabs. DH has a higher tolerance for him having a tantrum while he does something with DD. He still has to limit it to a few minutes though before dealing with the tantrum. I can't play with her if I can't hear myself think and that also doesn't create good space for her to talk to me about how her day went.

Someone might have suggested it already but make homemade play doh. You can do enough for both kids, restrict ds in a high chair with his share and DD can be at the table and you can all make things (competitions to see who can make X the quickest etc). If you use one of the recipes for it that means it can be eaten (or smashed in a mouth) you don't have to worry about DS and you will all be engaged in the same activity.

Same for any craft or game that can be played at a dining table. High chair for DS and engage with DD.

What things did she watch or do when using tech? Plan an activity around something you know she enjoys from being on tech or incorporate it into your activity. Follow YouTube instructions to make something? My DGS loves aeroplanes, he uses screen time to watch YouTube videos about flying or tracking plants on flight radar. When we play we draw planes, play aeroplane top trumps, create our own flight schedules and look at places on the world map we could go to. We go plane spotting at the local airport.

If you look at what she already likes on screens and work with that in mind she'll engage much more readily.

So you’re both just neglecting your daughter’s needs for your son?

DS is too young to see what we're doing and have fun by copying and feeling like he's doing it himself too e.g. pretending to cook

You just don't have the right toys for him I think. If you feel he's too young for a toy kitchen (I'm amazed really because they're good from about 12mo I'd say) - then give him mobilo or duplo, cars that you pull back and let go, a self-spinning top, those plastic eggs that fit together, etc etc.

Your ds will go the same way as your dd if you don't give him stuff he can play with.

She needs a bedroom overhaul so she can have all her crafting bits, lego friends etc. etc. up there and away from her brother- at best he’ll wreck her play, at worst they pose a serious choking hazard so I wouldn’t want any of that stuff in the main living space and you may find she plays better without distractions. I’d also see if school have any clubs she would enjoy so she can play with friends there, do some sort of activity and be home a bit later. Mine aren’t home before 5.30 except on Fridays, partly because we work, but also they love the clubs and added bonus we don’t have screentime battles because once you factor in dinner and showers there just isn’t enough time left for more than one episode of TV.