To not let children have Xmas lunch with grandparents when parents are divorcing

[Iris10000]

Just that really. We are getting divorced, which is DH decision. He needs more time to himself and for his job so in essence is asking to be a Saturday dad with one additional school pick up and drop off. He is very very close to his parents and wants to take kids (10 months and 4 years) to his parents for Xmas lunch for few hours. I will stay at home on my own. My relationship with his parents broken down after they barged into our house and said they always had a problem with me and what a bad person I am. I said he can go there for couple of hours but I would like to have lunch here with them. I am beyond angry and he doesn’t want any to change his plans.

I disagree.

OP has this is part of their xmas routine and most kids enjoy seeing their grandparents on Xmas day - it’s part of their tradition and the fun of Xmas.

I think the PPs suggesting that they don’t go to the in-laws at all are not thinking what’s best for the kids.

They’re also not thinking that that would mean next year the DH having them all day.
Surely a routine of having the kids for half the day is better for them and OP/DH going forward.

Your 4 yo will not want to leave mummy at home alone, it will be confusing.

I think a sensible compromise would be for the kids to see the grandparents on Boxing Day as you already suggested; your dh can go to see his parents on Christmas Day.

What is he going to do, forcibly remove them from the house? And how can he “ban you” from feeding them? Ludicrous bully.

Failing that : I would have a full main course Christmas dinner (without a starter), ready to feed both of them and yourself, with a properly laid table and crackers, hats and festive music at 12 noon. Dh can make himself scarce or hang around and be jolly but save his appetite for his mum’s dinner. Dc2 can have an afternoon nap and then dh can take the kids to see dgp around 3pm. The kids probably won’t want a second Christmas dinner but perhaps they will enjoy some of the starters and pudding.

What I would choose would be morning here and early lunch then snacks/dessert and presents at his parents from around 2pm. They however feel that they are entitled to have grandkids at the Christmas lunch from midday until late afternoon because that’s their tradition to have their son and his family over. They don’t appreciate when family unit falls apart, things change.

If he wants to keep up the tradition, then he goes to his parents alone. You're not included, so that's as much tradition as he gets.

OP just say no. What’s he going to do - physically manhandle them out of the house halfway through the lunch you have made for them?

Simply assert your answer “No. you have changed everything, that includes Christmas. Your parents can wait until tomorrow, they are adults. If you choose to make a scene about this and upset the children, try to bad-mouth me or permit your parents to bad-mouth me, you will discover that I can make your life exceptionally harder than it is today.”

How is he going to explain leaving Mummy at home on her own if/when they go to his parents

that's not part of the usual
routine and 4yo won’t understand it

Exactly!

I’d be telling him and his parents that they can piss off

The children are too young to really understand a routine that is one day a year. 4 years old and 10 months. They're more likely to be stressed out without their mum.

You need to tell them that they don't get to decide what your children do. And that as it's their son who is choosing to leave you, then your Christmas Day with your kids trumps his.

Them seeing the kids from 2pm sounds perfectly sensible. The kids will have eaten, will be calm and will have time to play with their new toys, with their grandparents. The grandparents will have had their meal and will be able to chill with the kids instead of running around getting the dinner sorted.

Your last update is completely reasonable. I would stick to your guns for this, you have made room for them to spend time with paternal family, unfortunately it won’t be for dinner. organise well in advance what will happen next year and future years then you wont feel put on the spot!

I think it’s best to alternate Xmas day. I just have a chilled day in Xmas and do mine on Boxing Day. My kids are older now and no it’s not actually Xmas day but they don’t mind.

If you have a schedule, eg alternative Xmas you don’t need to enter any discussions as can just refer to the schedule.

What "Christmas routine"?. The 10-month-old has never had a Christmas before and the 4-year-old probably won't remember any previous ones. I am sure that they would rather have lunch with their mother than with their grandparents, especially the 10-month-old.

Why should she have to lose Christmas Day with her children because he can’t parent full time.

tell him no, if he won’t let you do an early lunch as baby won’t eat at his parents then he goes to his parents alone. Why should you sit there eating christmas dinner alone? You need to alternate christmas so tell him he can have christmas lunch next year. Traditions change, he can only take the kids to his parents when its his year. Don’t let him bully you into this.

Absolutely not would be my answer. You spend Christmas with your children in your home.

OK so no. Just no. He can go to his parents on his own- they have treated you like shit so don't worry about them. He can see his children at home since that's where he lives. Next year he might have them for christmas depending on your division but this year he can go and fuck himself and his dreadful parents as well.

I didn’t realise you still lived together! This man is completely abusing you. Expecting none of his life to get harder by actually moving out but wanting less time with the kids whilst wanting to please his precious parents all at the same time. You really need to not be living with him (and that is coming from someone who has not managed to get rid of hers!) He doesn’t even know what looking after the kids is like yet because you’re always there. To be fair he doesn’t even know what a divorce looks like either the fucking moron! How does he know that he wouldn’t miss you if he’s never given you any space? How cruel to be the one that wants out but still be hanging around. How long is this going to go on for? Does he ever plan on separating homes? Is there anywhere you could go until the house is sold? He could clearly go to his parents’ place as they are sooooo close. I think you need a solicitor - do you have one? I think you need to get a bit angrier but I know that’s easier said than done but he is walking all over you. I feel so frustrated for you. I have one that is abusive. He won’t move out, it is so difficult to explain to someone that some men just won’t do the right thing and there is often very little you can do. You can’t kick someone out like many people will say, they have clearly never dealt with an abuser because they quite simply refuse to leave. Please get legal advice if you can. I am so sorry you’re going through this.

If he tries walking out with the 4 year old on Christmas Day and she asks for you, tell her you don’t want her to go and you would like her to stay with you or that you would like to go with her (I know I’ll get roasted for that) but you are her primary care giver and he is playing dirty. I was too nice when I separated from my ex, never said a bad word, meanwhile he was telling them all sorts of lies and of course they believed him because I wasn’t stating facts when I should have done. People might thing it will damage children but what also will damage them is wondering why you didn’t want to be with them on Christmas Day. What kind of Grandma / Grandad doesn’t say to their son ‘I know we’ve had our differences but I can’t see your (still) wife and mother of my Grandchildren alone on Christmas Day when I know she looks after them all the time.’ Fucking bastards all 3 of them.

And banned you from cooking early lunch? Let him grab the food from your hands if he wants you to stop and if he gets aggressive - 999. He cannot stop you from feeding your kids, you haven’t agreed to let him take them to their Grandparents’. Legally you can’t stop him but legally he can’t stop you fucking feeding them either! I’m so cross for you. I’ve had 2 men like this in my life and it is awful.

My heart goes out to you OP. Husband deciding he has had enough with a ten month old.
Sending you strength

Absolutely not. Also he cannot ban you from cooking Christmas dinner at whatever time you choose. Christmas morning and lunch with you then he can take them to his parents after 2-230pm. They can adapt their day or they can be arseholes. That’s up to them - not your problem. What happens in future years can be discussed at a later point but this year I would be resolute about this.

This sounds more than reasonable.

Tell them that this is what will be happening this year.

Things will never be exactly the same when one person chooses to leave and they need to recognise this.

Would you be happy to drive them?
If so I’d tell ex to go ahead and you’ll drop them off after you’ve had your dinner.

If he doesn’t want to see them during the week except for a pick up drop off I’d be saying well Christmas is on a Thursday so take them at 3pm and back by bedtime? If he doesn’t want to share the day to day parenting don’t let him get the special moments and be Disney Dad. If you allow it this year he could use it to set a president for holidays so keep them with you. Leave the house with them if you have to but I’d be keeping them with you. Sorry he’s been a twat OP.

@Iris10000 Do his parents realise that they are now only going to have access to their grandchildren on his time – i.e. Saturdays? Or do they assume you're just going to hand them over whenever they demand because they're helping to pay his child maintenance?

I really do think you need to instruct a solicitor asap.

As he has unilaterally appointed you default parent, I think you can amicably says no…the children need Christmas at home …and then offer your compromise.

You don’t deserve this OP 💐💐💐

Op, you are not be at all unreasonable. He's a prick and if his parents had any decency they would be telling him this.

Given that you are still living together, how are you planning to manage the situation? He obviously has neither your, or the dc best interests in mind, and i suspect he will try to take them regardless.

The way I see it, to avoid too much upset for your dc, you have limited choices. Take the dc to a friend/family member/hotel for Christmas eve-day so he has no control, stay home, cook an early dinner for you and the dc and deal with the shot show, or get the kids super excited for Christmas so they wake up early, give them a special (full English style)breakfast)), encourage them to dig into the Christmas chocolate and let them go with him. Maybe send some sand art or something for them to do. Tell your exh he can do bedtime, then fuck off to a mates house and get merry before rolling in late yourself. Do your nice Christmas on boxing day, but tell him to make himself scarce for the day. There will be more Christmases.

If I had a friend/ family member/ work colleague in your position I wouldn't say no. Reach out for support.

On what planet is it best for the children to be taken from their mother to spend Christmas Day with their grandparents? Sounds like you are thinking about what’s best for the OP’s soon to be ex husband and his parents, not the children.

Just because the OP decided to have Christmas lunch at her in laws a couple of times when she was married, doesn’t mean that her 4 year old and 10 month old should be locked into that arrangement forever.

Things change. The OP is getting divorced. The children will adjust, and new traditions will be made.

I’m sure arrangements will be made for future Christmases in the New Year when the divorce gets underway. But it’s not something the OP needs to be thinking about just now. She is entitled to spend Christmas Day at home with her children. The father has the option to join, or not. She is not excluding him from their children’s Christmas. He doesn’t get to exclude her.

Because the courts will take the view that the children have a right to spend christmas day with both parents during their childhoods.