All our children are different religions, Christmas is feeling overwhelming

[Ellipsie]

DH and I have 4 children, all now adults, all married. We are CofE Christians, our children were raised CofE Christians and Christmas for us has always been religion first.

Our eldest DD married a lovely Muslim and converted to Islam. Her 2 children are being raised Muslim.
Our youngest DD married her best friend from secondary school, he is Jewish, he leans liberal and isn’t as devout as DD1s family, but they celebrate Jewish holidays, go to synagogue for Yom Kipur/Rosh Hashanah etc. and always without fail have Shabbat dinner with his family. Their daughter is now 3 so more aware than in previous years.
Both of our DS are loosely Christian, church on Easter and Christmas only but do view Christmas as being religion first.

For our daughters they both have different approaches to Christmas.
My eldest daughter doesn’t want any presents for her children for Christmas, she has asked we celebrate them at Eid instead, which is of course understandable and absolutely fine. They will be joining us for dinner on Christmas Day though.
Our youngest daughter has a different approach where by they still celebrate Christmas “culturally”, so they do Father Christmas and have a Christmas tree etc. They also allow us to give their child a gift at Christmas.

Now our grandchildren are no longer babies I am finding it all a bit tricky to navigate. This year we have 7 grandchildren.
Our eldest DDs 2 children are now 4 and 2, our eldest son has a 3 year old and a 1 year old, our younger son has a 2 year old and a newborn and our youngest daughter has a 3 year old.

This is the first year we will be hosting Christmas with children who are aware of what’s going on. I’m terrified that as DD1 doesn’t want us give her children gifts they are going to feel awful as we will be giving the others gifts. I thought we could get around this by having our grandchildren who will get gifts come over earlier and receive them but as DD2 isn’t Christian and doesn’t do church that won’t be possible.

At the same time I’m also terrified about getting the language right, Christmas has always been religious for us, but now I’m thinking do I need to present everything as “well granny and grandad believe this, but others don’t”?

It’s got me very stressed out and I don’t want to upset or offend any of my children.

AIBU to struggle with this? Does anyone have any advice or ideas on how I can make this work?

I agree with this. I'd also be a bit nervous about how the day will go, sounds like there are plenty of grievances that could be aired! If two of the family don't really speak to each other that's going to be hard. And dd1 clearly isn't one to compromise.

I was surprised about this no gift thing. In our village (I´m in Spain) on the evening of January 5, the three wise men visit and have a gift for all under 12. All the little muslims queue with all the other kids and get their gift, their (mainly) Moroccan parents don´t seem at all bothered by this. On the other hand, converts (like the OP´s daughter) tend to be more fanatical than those born in the religion in my experience.

I think in this family religion defines them. They seem inflexible with old religion and new found ones. How divisive it all is. It’s not meant to be like this. Surely people can take religion away for a day when guests are present. Do the religious stuff the night before or early. Then entertain the guests. People always fall out over religion and obviously DD1 has found one to be precious about. It’s all sad and not tolerant or welcoming.

You know this is why religious parents draw very firm lines and set strict rules on interfaith matters...Christians are just more LIBERAL about it.

Judaism = No interfaith marriage is religiously valid.
Islam = Muslim men may marry Jewish or Christian women; Muslim women may NOT marry non-Muslim men.
Christianity = interfaith is Permitted but discouraged.

There will be plenty of liberal British Jews and Muslims who will play along with gifts and food, but if they're serious about their faith, Christmas won't matter much. Just the way it is. Not an excuse for rudeness, but you can't expect them to observe it as a religious holiday. In most Muslim countries and in Israel, Christmas is just a 'normal working day'. Have you tried having a talk over tea about presents giving? She's your kid.

This is very sad but it has to be said. Your DD1 doesn't have much respect for anyone. Yet all the rest of you have to tippy toe around her. The fact she didn't go to both her brothers weddings is rude in the extreme. People go to weddings of other faiths and none all the time. You should do what suits you, you seem a very kind mild mannered good person and you shouldn't have to be worrying about 'offending' anyone. You're actually being too kind and you still won't get it 'right' because DD1 will take umbrage at something.

Buy presents for all your grandchildren and if DD1 doesn't want one for her children then leave them under the tree for DD1 to ponder on. There is nothing in the Koran that says a child cannot accept a Christmas gift. I'd warrant Mohommed would think it unkind, ungrateful and childish to be acting in this fashion. If the gifts are unwanted bring them back to the shop in the New Year or rewrap them for a birthday next year. Problem solved.

BTW is your daughter a perfect muslim in all aspects of her lift? She seems very high handed, easy to offence, even easier to give offence, rude, petulant and awful. To people who seem to be trying to bend over backwards to placate her every possible whim .....

Why does Christmas have to be modified for other religions but other religious celebrations get to be respected as they are?

I agree that giving presents to some people but not all could be awkward. Not giving DD1 and her DH gifts would be one thing - that's what they requested - but the children could find it upsetting

One option, and the one I'd probably be most tempted by in your shoes, would be to attend Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve then keep Christmas Day itself broadly secular (without actually denying that it's celebration of Christmas). Those who are receiving presents can come round early so that your DD1's children aren't upset.

As an alternative, could you remove the gift exchange from Christmas Day? Many cultures exchange Christmas gifts at other times - e.g., the Germanic countries tend to swap gifts in the evening on the 24th, or Spanish and Latin American people swap gifts on 6th January to mark Epiphany or Three Kings Day.

Respect for religion has to go both ways, and these are your children. If your daughter feels disrespected because you do a Santa present for the other kids, then she needs to communicate what she thinks is appropriate, or arrange to visit another time. Ask her explicitly how to manage it.

You're doing everything that has been asked of you, I don't really understand what you're so "terrified" about? You're allowed to talk about your own religion.

@eqpi4t2hbsnktd I’d suggest they all amended their attitudes. They need to respect each other as family and not define themselves by religion. Look at the conflict it’s producing!

It sounds like a bit of a headache.
I’m assuming you want to go to church Christmas morning so what I would do is give your DD2 presents for her DC to open at home in the morning while your DSs and their DC come to yours earlier and have their presents with you and go to church.
Then your DDs would arrive after church/presents in time for lunch so DD1’s DC wouldn’t feel left out.
However I don’t see why you can’t give your grandchildren presents at Christmas instead of Eid - Eid means nothing to you seeing as you’re not Muslim. Her children are going to realise about Christmas soon anyway as it’s quite hard to miss if they live in the UK!

Also think your DDs (mostly DD1 by the sounds of it) have a bit of a cheek saying they don’t want you mentioning any religious stuff on Christmas Day, if I went to a Jewish or Muslim home I would respectfully observe any praying etc, not sure why they can’t do the same. Their children will be aware at some point that their Mums were raised Christian and that’s part of their heritage too. Lots of British Muslims take part in Christmas in some way.

The only person I know who was raised by parents of different religions (neither particularly religious admittedly) sees it as having the best of both worlds, they celebrated all the religious festivals!

But what about respecting you? You are Christian. You are inviting people over for one of your religion‘s high holidays. Why would anyone expect you to male this secular?

would your DD1 make Eid secular / a non-religious festival?

You sound incredibly thoughtful and making small adjustments (as in no presents for her DC / different present times to prevent jealousy issues etc) sounds reasonable. But your DD1 knows what Christmas means to you and how you celebrate. There’s no need to fundamentally change that (imo).

The religion first stance is seriously backfiring! For whatever reason, DD1 has adopted the family mantra and is sticking to it rather too firmly. If the obvious solution of going with an entirely secular celebration is not going to fly, an alternative might be to ask all the adult children to say something before the meal that means something to them from the perspective of their own religious views - adopting a kind of religious pluralism. What is the worst that could happen? Cold Brussels sprouts?

But let all the children have presents in exchange for this respectful nod to all religions represented by those attending. It does not take Madame Zaza with her crystal ball to see problems ahead if all the children are not treated the same.

I think it sounds like it will be a lovely event - lots of small children, family who get on - I just think the dd1 should stay away (her husband and children would be welcome!) as she is the fly in the ointment

I think I would be very clear with DD1 that she has asked to join in with your religious holiday and you will be celebrating as you always have.

I would still get GDD a present in winter themed paper as it’s part of my celebration. I would also get her gifts for Eid by the way as a way of recognising their celebration, and I’d tell her parents that in advance.

I’d also be really clear that you wouldn’t expect to join Eid and have it secularised for your benefit and she should not expect the same. If she can’t be civil, she’ll need to leave.

Your problem isn’t the different religions, your problem is that your daughter is a controlling bully. And that’s really sad as ultimately your chances of navigating this successfully are low.

I wonder if she or your son in law would be willing to ask their Imam for advice as to how to best navigate it? This must come up not infrequently and perhaps they can offer some guidance as to a compromise?

Love this. And the present prohibition 😂
OP you sound lovely and thoughtful. Honestly can your dd not compromise and accept a present for her children from her parents. She is making this so overcomplicated and isnt respecting your traditions. Why are hers more important? Hope u find a solution.

I would try to work out a timetable, probably pushing dinner til later. Have presents before DD1 arrives, and as early as Church service as you can.
The just have DD1 and family for the meal and games.
If she is coming you will have Christmas “trappings” around. But leave the rest of explaining to her/her husband.
But make this clear to everyone, what the timetable is, and why.

You may well have arguments but that sounds as if it is par for the course. (Also prime your sons to “distract” DD1 if necessary.)

I would buy all the children a small present from you. Not from Santa....he doesn't belong in the Nativity. Tell the children they are from you as you are celebrating the birth of Jesus and want to share with them.
Go to midnight mass, so no-one has to go on Christmas morning. Play Christmas songs as well as carols...celebrate your Christmas but if you want all the family there, take into account their religions as well, as I hope they would respect yours.

So in summary what you are saying is that you as a Christian family need to be careful to accommodate DD1 who is a different religion but who has no tolerance or respect for your religion. That seems a little odd. Religious tolerance needs to work both ways surely.

You do not need to put your faith second or apologise for it. It is valid.

As a mum I'd be keeping a careful eye. It seems strange that DD1 didn't attend her brothers' weddings.

I know lots of people who have carols in the background … I think saying Grace might be rated, but not carols!

I’d give the presents to your children to give to your grandchildren on your behalf Xmas morning x

No way I'd want to see them open them

DD1 sounds a bit of a bully and she's definitely the problem.

Could you give DD2 presents before or on the day for opening after?

Normally I'd say fuck DD1 and give her kids presents but it sounds like she'd ruin the day for everyone and you want her there so I'd give DD2 the presents at a different time

I think if you go to midnight mass and church in the morning, you ought to spare your family from further warbling. Just feel the love, open your presents, say grace, enjoy lunch. Embrace your grandchildren.

Which would please DD1 AND absolutely no-one else. Stand up for the majority in your own home.