All our children are different religions, Christmas is feeling overwhelming

[Ellipsie]

DH and I have 4 children, all now adults, all married. We are CofE Christians, our children were raised CofE Christians and Christmas for us has always been religion first.

Our eldest DD married a lovely Muslim and converted to Islam. Her 2 children are being raised Muslim.
Our youngest DD married her best friend from secondary school, he is Jewish, he leans liberal and isn’t as devout as DD1s family, but they celebrate Jewish holidays, go to synagogue for Yom Kipur/Rosh Hashanah etc. and always without fail have Shabbat dinner with his family. Their daughter is now 3 so more aware than in previous years.
Both of our DS are loosely Christian, church on Easter and Christmas only but do view Christmas as being religion first.

For our daughters they both have different approaches to Christmas.
My eldest daughter doesn’t want any presents for her children for Christmas, she has asked we celebrate them at Eid instead, which is of course understandable and absolutely fine. They will be joining us for dinner on Christmas Day though.
Our youngest daughter has a different approach where by they still celebrate Christmas “culturally”, so they do Father Christmas and have a Christmas tree etc. They also allow us to give their child a gift at Christmas.

Now our grandchildren are no longer babies I am finding it all a bit tricky to navigate. This year we have 7 grandchildren.
Our eldest DDs 2 children are now 4 and 2, our eldest son has a 3 year old and a 1 year old, our younger son has a 2 year old and a newborn and our youngest daughter has a 3 year old.

This is the first year we will be hosting Christmas with children who are aware of what’s going on. I’m terrified that as DD1 doesn’t want us give her children gifts they are going to feel awful as we will be giving the others gifts. I thought we could get around this by having our grandchildren who will get gifts come over earlier and receive them but as DD2 isn’t Christian and doesn’t do church that won’t be possible.

At the same time I’m also terrified about getting the language right, Christmas has always been religious for us, but now I’m thinking do I need to present everything as “well granny and grandad believe this, but others don’t”?

It’s got me very stressed out and I don’t want to upset or offend any of my children.

AIBU to struggle with this? Does anyone have any advice or ideas on how I can make this work?

I don't understand why dd1 won't accept gifts for her children. She doesn't have to celebrate Christmas to accept gifts. Her husband's family will be giving her children presents on Eid. I'm Hindu so we don't have any restrictions on celebrating any other religions holidays. However, I remember seeing a video online saying that Muslim converts should go visit their family for Christmas and exchange presents. Converts tend to to be a lot stricter.

At school, my Muslim friends would take part in secret Santa etc. Not going to your son's wedding as it is in a church is extreme. Most Muslims won't care. In fact a Muslim man can marry a Christian woman without them converting. They're all abrahamic religions and she seems to be taking it too seriously! But not sure why she would come to yours on Christmas though if she is so against it?

I agree, but I don’t see that any of that is relevant to the issue of whether or not to say grace before a meal.

this. I would suggest that you set up a family chat if you don't have one, and set out, gently and kindly, what YOU will be doing in YOUR house at Christmas. Those of your family who are happy to join you are welcome and those who can't fall in with you will be welcome to visit on another day.

If you live in the UK, it's a Christian country - the King is the head of Church of England. Christmas is a national holiday. Just give gifts to all the kids - you don't need to justify. Your daughter is unreasonable. I cannot imagine giving gifts only to some kids, they would be devastated!
BTW, my DH and I are of different religions and we celebrate each other's festivals.

Your adult children have attended enough of your christmases to know how it's going to run, surely?

As for presents, can't the children have them to take home with them? Even if it's just a discrete carrier bag handed to the parent at the door? I understand you'd much prefer to see the children open them, but it would be very unfair for the 4yo muslim, who just wouldn't understand.

Personally, I'd have forgone all gifts and taken them gifts to open at their appropriate religious festival.
"Hi DDs, I've decided that it's probably easier all round if I don't give any of the children gifts at Christmas. I'll keep hold of them and distribute them at "relevant" celebration!"

TBH, this sounds like a lot of religious overkill. But perhaps I'm too much of an atheist to understand! It just seems like you are going to a LOT of effort to bend to your adult children who had no interest whatsoever in keeping to their childhood faith - and indeed jumped into a new one for a man - which also rather implies they aren't that fussed what religion they are!

And speaking of the Jewish side... Children "inherit" their faith from their mothers in Judaism. So unless she has officially converted, which you don't say she has (it's very difficult to do apparently), her children aren't Jewish.
They can be "culturally" Jewish, but not officially so.

What a silly thing to say.

Christmas, or the Feast of the Nativity, has been celebrated by Christians for well over 1000 years, in the Middle East, Asia, where and Africa where the earliest Christian communities are, Europe, and even in the Americas for many centuries, in both the Northern and Southern hemispheres.

It's not a "winter" festival in many of those places, btw. Because you know in many of the places where people are Christians it isn't particularly wintry, or it's actually the height of summer.

OP, can you not say to DD1 "I'm so glad you're coming and I'm looking forward to seeing you, and want to make sure all then grandchild have a nice time. What would you like to do, when the other dgc are getting their Christmas gifts?"

Just put the ball in her court as it's her decision to not recieve gifts, so maybe she already has a plan to manage this? If not, she needs to think of one ahead of time.

What religion was she brought up with?

I have never met a Muslim family who denied their children the opportunity to receive gifts at Christmas, there is nothing in the Quoran that forbids it. Of course you should also give the Muslim gc gifts at Eid but not instead. Dd1 is being ridiculous.

A lot of single guys in their thirties are overly attached to and emotionally involved with the mom. I think it’s time to give him and her space so he grows up gets his own apartment and doesn’t fumble the next one too. This is not your issue to be upset about. Give them both space.

There have been a lot of dishonest, bad-faith posts in the past - which have been rumbled and deleted - where OPs have confected an awkward cultural impasse caused by a Muslim friend or family member. The formula tends to be that the sweet OP is trying their very-bestest to be accommodating and tolerant but the other party is causing dreadful cultural problems. Any suggestions of common-sense solutions (such as your DDs both talking to one another ahead of time) are dismissed out of hand as impossible (they don't talk to each other ever, apparently, despite planning to attend the same intimate family gathering).

This may well be genuine, but some posters are understandably having their suspicions triggered by these similarities.

I would definitely make the Grace before the meal about your family being a melting pot of the Abrahamic faiths thriving in tolerance, love and kindness

Your DD1 is putting you in an unecessarily difficult position regarding the gift giving. I know many Muslims who have a small Christmas celebration including gifts for the kids. They celebrate it culturally rather than religiously, but given Christ is recognused in Islam (just not as the son of God) its not a huge leap either. She sounds like a convert who is trying too hard!

But if you ignore her wishes it won't go down well. I think you have no choice but to let her children get upset and see how she handles it.

That said, I would have a gift on standby, on case something shifts on the day. I would also speak to her husband and gauge his views, as there is a chance he would allow it. This sounds like it has way more to do with your DD1s personality than religion, and she's making her kids suffer for it. Why on earth come on Christmas day if not to partake? When you pray before eating is she going to cover her kids ears and sing lalalalala at the top of her voice?

My SIL is Hindu and we have always enjoyed Christmas together with family. Presents, food etc.

I lived in a Muslim country (with a religious government) where you couldn't move in shopping malls for fake snow and nativity scenes. Now I live in a part of London with a large Muslim community where everyone goes about with santa-hat hijab pins. I'm the one trying to escape Christmas, and I'm failing!

You play hymns during Christmas lunch?

How extraordinary.

I’m Christian and have never met another Christian who plays hymns during a family get-together. You must realise that’s very unusual indeed.

We don’t say grace but would simply say an ecumenical blessing if this were our practice in these circumstances.

It’s really very easy to make a celebration inclusive without making it secular.

You know what ask dd1 what she wants to do.
Explain you need to do presents Christmas day and how would she like to handle it?

Why has your daughter decided she wants to come to Christmas dinner this year?

In any case, she is being unreasonable and almost sounds like she is trying to cause trouble.

Don't dilute your celebrations. Go to church, have Christmas music, say your prayers as usual. That's what the Christmas celebration is about.

Gifts are not a religious element really, so maybe you could shift that practice. The kids are young enough so that you could set up a new precedent around that this year. I gather there is no time between church and people arriving to have your other children come earlier and then your DD1 to join you just for dinner? Because that would probably be the easiest approach.

What I would not do is give presents to your DD1s child anyway, even if you disguise them as something else, and I would not give presents to the other kids in front of your grandchild as that is cruel to her (though totally her mothers fault, but I wouldn't sacrifice the child for the mother's vanity.)

You could give the presents ahead of time, so your other grandchildren can open them at home on Christmas morning.The thing would be missing seeing them with the gifts. Or maybe visit your other kids on Christmas eve briefly - take the presents around and the grandchildren can open them with you there. Then off to the next house - that might not be too much of a burden if the visits are short, but it would depend what the other families do that evening normally, they may well have obligations to the other side of the family. There are a number of ways you could manage this, but essentially think about how to make the gift element separate and set a new tradition around that.

Another avenue could be to explore what your DD1s goal really is with coming to this event while trying to stop others practising their faith. Because she is trying to have her cake and eat it too and it's very unfair to all. Is she just missing family gatherings? If so, maybe what you need is to all go on Boxing Day to a nice secular buffet or have a take-out day or something like that.

If you want to keep the gift giving as it is, I would put the ball in her court. Ask her what her plan is for her child. You might also consider having a word with your son in law if you think it might be an easier conversersation, "Hey, Dave, I am just wondering what you guys were thinking about as far as the gift opening. We won't have anything for GC as you requested but I suspect it will be upsetting for her when the others get gifts and I am wondering what your plan is?"

Hindus pretty much appropriate any fun holiday they come across though. It's kind of built in.

Muslims and Jews don't celebrate Christmas.

Muslims and Jews may or may not participate in giving/accepting Christmas presents.

I just found these—

Judaism website: Rabbi Yaron Reuven says, as long as it's not as an offering to their false god, you can accept it, and you should say thank you.

Muslim website: There is nothing wrong with accepting a gift from a non-Muslim on Christmas and that is not regarded as participating in it or approving of it, rather it should be accepted as an act of kindness with the aim of softening his heart and calling him to Islam.

And that's just from a quick Google!

On the other hand, I found multiple online posts recommending that Jews/Muslims not participate in the Christmas tradition.

If your Muslim or Jewish family decide not to participate as long as they do so tactfully that's up to them.

I follow Maajid Nawaaz (British Muslim) on X and he recently posted himself at a Christmas event in front of Christmas trees and lights etc with his Christian wife. I assume it's normal for mixed religion marriages to share in each other's celebrations but everyone is different.

Just relax and enjoy Christmas and be grateful you have so many grandchildren! I can see why people keep saying "the religious will inherit the earth"

You are making a massive drama over having a multicultural family. I’d get gift receiving family over earlier to get gifts out of the way. If that’s impossible send gifts to their home. Then all have a lovely family day together.

We are split devout/atheist but it’s not an issue. Some go to church, some don’t. No one spends Christmas Day talking about Jesus.

You've never seen people listen to things like Lessons and Carols, or "Christmas at King's College" or anything like that, or even Celtic Christmas type things with traditional music?

Her daughter is the one causing the issue. Everyone else is fine.

Presumably this is traditional so your kids will be expecting it, so they’re used to it.

Kids have a way of being much more adaptable than we give them credit for and they also don’t overthink things the way we do. If you do a prayer and your secular grandkids have questions about it then that’s fine? It’s not an issue surely for them to be curious and also be told ‘Granny believes in Jesus and is doing something called praying… etc’ Likewise have traditional hymns if you like them but also acknowledge Christmas for kids is about joy and snowmen and reindeer (even in a religious house) and include them in any music choices?