All our children are different religions, Christmas is feeling overwhelming

[Ellipsie]

DH and I have 4 children, all now adults, all married. We are CofE Christians, our children were raised CofE Christians and Christmas for us has always been religion first.

Our eldest DD married a lovely Muslim and converted to Islam. Her 2 children are being raised Muslim.
Our youngest DD married her best friend from secondary school, he is Jewish, he leans liberal and isn’t as devout as DD1s family, but they celebrate Jewish holidays, go to synagogue for Yom Kipur/Rosh Hashanah etc. and always without fail have Shabbat dinner with his family. Their daughter is now 3 so more aware than in previous years.
Both of our DS are loosely Christian, church on Easter and Christmas only but do view Christmas as being religion first.

For our daughters they both have different approaches to Christmas.
My eldest daughter doesn’t want any presents for her children for Christmas, she has asked we celebrate them at Eid instead, which is of course understandable and absolutely fine. They will be joining us for dinner on Christmas Day though.
Our youngest daughter has a different approach where by they still celebrate Christmas “culturally”, so they do Father Christmas and have a Christmas tree etc. They also allow us to give their child a gift at Christmas.

Now our grandchildren are no longer babies I am finding it all a bit tricky to navigate. This year we have 7 grandchildren.
Our eldest DDs 2 children are now 4 and 2, our eldest son has a 3 year old and a 1 year old, our younger son has a 2 year old and a newborn and our youngest daughter has a 3 year old.

This is the first year we will be hosting Christmas with children who are aware of what’s going on. I’m terrified that as DD1 doesn’t want us give her children gifts they are going to feel awful as we will be giving the others gifts. I thought we could get around this by having our grandchildren who will get gifts come over earlier and receive them but as DD2 isn’t Christian and doesn’t do church that won’t be possible.

At the same time I’m also terrified about getting the language right, Christmas has always been religious for us, but now I’m thinking do I need to present everything as “well granny and grandad believe this, but others don’t”?

It’s got me very stressed out and I don’t want to upset or offend any of my children.

AIBU to struggle with this? Does anyone have any advice or ideas on how I can make this work?

It doesn’t need to be this complex. If you’re able to, I would visit the three children who don’t mind presents and give those out before the actual day. That way the grandchildren from DD1 won’t feel left out because yes, young children being forced to watch their cousins open gifts and not get any themselves is cruel.

In terms of speaking about religion on the day, is this really a topic that needs to come up? I say this as someone who was raised split between two faiths, with a Grandma on one side who was a vicar. We never spoke about Jesus or God on the day. We just ate food and talked about regular stuff.

Have you asked DD1 why she wants to come? She doesn't want her child to get presents, doesnt want to celebrate Christmas, doesnt want to speak to her sister and is bringing her own food? She might as well stay at home!

Because when we are a guest we are polite and appreciative. We take off our shoes when asked, all food (within reason) is delicious, and we happily follow any family/religious traditions.

I'm agnostic, but whatever my hosts do I will also do. Or not, if that is more respectful. And I ask if I am unsure.

Bowing your head for a minute, and listening to a few words that may mean a great deal to others at the table is a very small ask.

Yes, I would do that too. But if the OP knows in advance that saying grace aloud and playing hymns would make some of her guests uncomfortable, she'll have to decide whether it is worth changing her normal habits for once, or carry on in the knowledge that she has made that deliberate choice.

It's DD1 not letting you buy presents for her child, so there's nothing you can do about it. It's her problem if the child gets upset.

I wouldn't pray before a meal with people of other faiths. Of course it's up to you.

Why is it that you are doing all the compromising? If you went to her house for Eid, would she be happy if you insisted she took all the religious elements out of it? It's a ridiculous request.

If she doesn't like how you have always celebrated your religious festival, then she can visit you on a different day.

There is nothing wrong with any religion saying their prayers in their own home on a religious festival. Thousands of people say grace before a meal. Can keep it simple - “Thank you God for our food and being together today”. And the children will hear carols in their school, on the radio, why not in their religious grandparents house.

OP if you do Eid how they want, they should respect you doing a religious festival how you want. And the family traditions which probably mean a lot to your children.

Depends on how they’re being raised. I’m a member of a liberal Jewish congregation and we recognise either side - the important thing is if the children are being raised Jewish and identify as such.

(Though yes, not all sects would agree and nor would Israeli law unless they’ve - the children or the mother before having them - formally converted)

Seems to me that your eldest daughter only wants to attend to make some sort of point and I’d be telling her that all the children will be getting gifts because that is how you do Christmas and if she doesn’t like it then she should come later in the day . I certainly wouldn’t be party to upsetting a small child .

We are going to my in-laws for Christmas. They say Grace. We bow our heads and look respectful. No one asks Jesus to bless my kids as they did that once and apparently my face had strong feelings. We can watch and be respectful both ways - they just flew out to attend my daughter’s bat mitzvah. They nodded and looked respectful and didn’t say anything they didn’t believe in. There are so many ways to respect each other without participating in a different religion so I think you have a daughter as a bully problem more than anything else.

I would probably politely say if they don’t want to celebrate Christmas then they probably shouldn’t come to your house to celebrate Christmas…. Christmas is a religious holiday at the end of the day, you don’t have to be Christian or even religious to celebrate it but you can’t just pretend there’s no religious/christian element to it. It’s very nice of you to be so considerate though, they’re lucky.

This is so cruel. What on earth has Santa got to do with baby Jesus. Christmas and Christmas are two separate things imo. One being a religious celebration, the other being a western cultural norm. I would be having serious words with DD1 and reminding them that they live in England!

As a Christian, nothing would ever stop me acknowledging Christ and only Christ as God. I would buy all the children gifts, and they would be Christmas presents.

Cant you just quietly give gifts that they can open later at home. And have the cultural aspects at home...tree, food etc. But do the church bit only with those that actually go and worship. So basically make it a get together but just be involved in the christmas bits with those for whom it is directly relevant. . Bit of a juggling act, i know, but it shouldnt be strategically impossible. And maybe in future invite them on different days over christmas. . Perhaps a garden party in the summer with no religio jnvolved would be a better way for cousins to meet and retson contact.

It does sound difficult.
How about New Year presents or something, and take Christmas out of it altogether?

ETA: you should not be "terrified" of saying the wrong thing. You are in the UK? Christmas is A Thing here, and anyone who lives there needs to realise that even if they don't celebrate, other people do. So, stop being terrified if something slips out - as long as you aren't trying to convert anyone or change their minds you are fine.
TBH your DD1 sounds like the worst kind of convert, the religious zealot. Lots of my muslim friends have been to church celebrations, why wouldn't they? it is the same god.

Religions all preach tolerance - time for everyone to practice it?

You have a choice to make. Either Christmas is a Christian event all day, done the way it’s always been done, and you don’t mind who chooses not to come. Or Christmas is a family event and from now on you will do your acts of religious devotion privately before/ after having guests. You will have a Muslim/ Jewish/ Christian family for the rest of your life. With a little flexibility you could bring everyone together.

I haven’t RTFT, only your posts OP. If it hasn’t already been suggested, I would say the presents are from Santa and that Santa brings presents to the children who write to him. That way it’s your DD’s responsibility to explain why she doesn’t want her children to write to Santa.

She will be growing up in a whole country of children getting presents at Christmas, and this will happen every year.

I have grown up in a very multicultural area and have lots of friends of other religions and they all do some form of gift giving and celebration at Christmas. As with your DD2, it’s the culture of the country they live in so why not enjoy the fun? Your DD1 sounds like she wants to pick a fight about it. YANBU to be struggling with it!

Read all your other messages now. If she missed her brothers weddings for being in a church I guess she is extremely orthodox. I have never ever heard of any religion doing that - I have been to Christian weddings with Muslims in attendance. Our local mosque even attends some events at our church! You have also said she has a temper and could get angry. So for that reason, I would say tell your DD2 the issue. Say you would like to do pressies before church and DD1 arrives, as you don’t want her children left out. Then say you are happy for DD2 to stay at home while you are at church - you always pick up some Christmassy snacks, or ask her if you can put the pressies in a bag or give the kids their pressies once DD1 leaves. Maybe you could pick up some Christmas crafts for the afternoon for all the kids to do - don’t even have to be majorly Christmassy if you are worried. Allows them to do a fun activity. Or a board game. It will take the focus away from their other toys. Might be a way round it. Aside from this, it isn’t for your kids to dictate it.

DD1 sounds like she has gone very hard line and if any religion is missing their brothers weddings and dictating her child being given presents I would be very worried. I can’t imagine you turning up at Eid and refusing to have presents, asking them to play no music and not mention Islam. The GC have an opportunity to be brought up very tolerant - understanding Christian, Jewish and Muslim faiths. That is probably what to aim for.

Your DD1 knows that and that is the problem, she wants you to change how you celebrate.

I'm wondering if this is what it's all about as far as DD1 is concerned. I think you should hold fast to your Christian way celebrating Christmas. We are Christian country... be proud of that fact and don't minimise our faith.

DD1 is a massive problem. Not going to her brothers weddings is dreadful, really the venue trumps love of family???

Did you and your husband have words with her about this??

I think you’re trying to tiptoe around her. Do Christmas as you do, have the treasure hunt (don’t ask!) If she kicks off tell her to behave, Christmas is about family as well as religiosity.

I would give the gifts prior to Christmas Day, so it isn't obvious to those who aren't getting them.

Apart from that, I'd celebrate as normal. It is a Christian festival after all.

Your Muslim daughter is clearly not going to back down. If she, raised Christian, is rejecting Christmas gifts for her children, she is doing it in the certain knowledge that they are being excluded from one of the biggest British cultural traditions and these children will be coming up against this all the time. I'm sure she is going to have answers for them - you are in the clear. Bigger issue imo is why she is so rejecting of her heritage. Plenty of people would be able to compromise but not her. It's not like you are expecting them to attend church.

What @Hercisback1 said. They can deal with this. Give gifts as you usually would be none for the child who isn’t allowed them. Or that family comes later after Christmas gifts have been distributed.

Your house and if you want to buy gifts for your visitors, you can. Doenst have to be from father christmas or in religion related wrapping paper

your dd is being unreasonable saying no gifts - who does that to a 4 year old. Cruel!

As a grandmother its a pleasure for you to gift and see their wee faces when they receive and open a gift - why should you and the children be denied that. (I presume you dont start with.... we emmulate the three wise men who took gifts for baby Jesus).

This all the way