Ex-mother in law begging and crying for DD's photos

[Nia34]

My ex mother-in-law, whom I got on okay with, has recently reached out to me on WhatsApp, literally begging me to send her pictures of DD (7 years old). I have not spoken to her in over two years.

Her son and I officially separated in early 2022. He cheated and moved overseas (Europe) to be with the AP. He was and is living with his mum. He tried to make us homeless and left his job to avoid paying child maintenance (he worked for a UK company). He has made sure to remain jobless and is now only considering jobs in the UAE as it is a non-REMO country. He made the divorce process absolute hell. Went to court over finances, lied about everything.

Since the end of 2021, he has been largely absent from DD’s life because he lives abroad. However, whenever he reached out, I allowed contact. Whenever he visited (no more than twice a year for a few days and not specifically to see DD), I let him spend as much time with her as he wished.

We tried to set up a call schedule, but he refused. He bought her a phone so he could contact her, as according to him, I was in the way, yet he rarely did call/message. DD had to call him every time, and he wouldn’t answer. Messages would go unanswered for days, and he never tried to communicate unless DD initiated the conversation.

I eventually had to stop all phone contact with him because DD was extremely upset after his last visit. He stayed for 3 months, primarily due to court hearings, and then left again without even saying bye to her. I have sent a letter (in May this year) offering consistent contact since, but he has not responded.

DD and I went through a very difficult time over the years. She was very young, and it was extremely hard for her to understand why her dad did not make her a priority. It was incredibly painful for both of us.
Now, she wants absolutely nothing to do with him and has set a clear boundary both at home and at school: no one is allowed to bring up her dad in conversation, as she says it makes her feel angry and upset. She refuses to call him “Daddy” and instead refers to him as “that man.”

Anyway, his mum was very upset about the divorce and did not want it to happen. On the voice note, she said she misses us and that it is not her fault her son behaves the way he does. She went on to literally beg for pictures of DD. I sent her a couple of pictures, and DD sent a voice note saying hello, how are you etc. She replied crying, saying I had made her day.

I feel conflicted because him and his family have not bothered to ask how DD is for months and months, literally to the point where they would not have known whether she was alive or dead. And I feel a bit annoyed that he gets to see her and receive updates (through his mum) without even trying.

AIBU to send photos? Should I continue to send photos if she asks, or should I stop if it happens again in the future?

It is up to your ex to facilitate a relationship between your child and his family. Tell your ex MIL that. May be then she will see what her son is like.

All the people telling OP she should send her ex MIL some pics seem to be steadfastly ignoring the fact that OP's DD DOESN'T WANT HER TO!!!! (Yes I'm shouting.)

And she ignored her DGD for three years. 🙄

No she fucking doesn't. OP has said:

'Since 2022, she has not regularly reached out to check on DD, even during periods when DD was unwell and frequently in hospital, which her son was fully aware of. I tried to maintain contact by sending cards and well-wishes for different occasions, and by keeping her on social media so she could see updates about DD. However, earlier this year, I deleted all of his family from my social media.'

Where would you get the idea that MIL is a good person from this? She enables her disgusting son to basically abandon his own daughter.

OP owes her absolutely nothing.

OP, I had the same dilemma over 30 years ago, my ex mil wouldnt tell me where her son was because 'all I wanted was his money'. Never once did she ask how her dgd was, never even asked if she had food in the house or if she had a winter coat etc. She has now missed 33 years of the most fantastic person ever and a great grand child, I have no sympathy for her what ever. My dd has been bought up, loved and cared for by her 'step' dad (he is never referred to as such by her, she loves him dearly) She also has a large extended family on his side who accepted her truly and lovingly. I would not bother with sending pictures etc, sod her, she is reaping what she a sowed!

I hope you and your dd end up as I did, very happy!

Because the appropriate way to deal with that is not by withholding pictures to spite her for past silence.

Obviously, if it was a request for contact or a call then that’s a bit more nuanced because your daughters wishes are front and centre there but photos don’t actually affect her. The only reason to withhold them is to spite the recipient.

As to pp, I am a grandmother, there is nothing I would not do for my DGS, the thought of not having a proper loving relationship with him would break my heart, what sort of person could ignore a child? Her grown arse son has made his bed and she has helped him to the detriment of a small child, fuck her!

Does your ex-MIL do the standard granny stuff of Xmas and Birthday presents etc? If she does it would be polite and not too much emotional involvement to send a little hand written note back from your DD. That keeps the relationship open for the future.
I think sharing photos - other then an impersonal school type photo - is too much invasion of your daughter’s privacy, particularly as she is saying she doesn’t want to be involved. It upsets her, and thats quite reasonable.
Perhaps just brush off any requests in an evasive non-committal way to prevent a big argument and see if things change in the future. She can’t reach down the phone and twist your arm.

@shuggles Not sure what you mean by 'he has won'...

@Coatsoff42 No, she doesn’t send any presents or cards. We used to send her presents and cards, but we stopped.

She can refuse photos but blocking contact might be extreme. If I was op I might personally stay in touch but not force her daughter to speak to her.

I'd want to have a serious talk with grandma about her intentions, her lack of contact over the last couple yrs and let her know if she wants to stay in touch it needs to be consistent. I would want to assess whether she was a toxic character and decide from there.

There has been some estrangement in my family that I deeply regret (I'm not the parent) and reaching out was very difficult do to both parents and living far away. Now the kids are young adults and I do feel terrible about not reaching out and how some contact was handled by other relatives, but you do get used to the status quo of no contact that has been normalized, even though I think about them and care about them a lot. (Probably sounds pathetic.)

Agree with pp that families are complicated and fraught.

You have her don’s child and got on with her? Why on earth wouldn’t you send her a few photos? 🤷‍♀️

I agree with this. The inconsistency with dad is already extremely upsetting for dd, she doesn't need that from a second person. Someone was telling me about the sporadic contact she had with her dad growing up, and how it would have been better for her has he left once and for all. She has a stepdad she loves.

Usually I'd say the relationship with grandparents is his problem if they're his parents, but he's disappeared.

It is a shame for them, as they love their granddaughter and didn't choose to lose her from their lives.

Also, if there are grandparents there ready and willing to love her, I can't see why this could be anything less than a good thing for your daughter.

Sometimes although it's hard as they will remind you of her dad, you just have to do what's best for your child, and what's right to be a decent human being.

You have the ability here to make several people's lives better, including your own if there's any chance of help from them over the years.

I'm so sorry for what you've been through, but please, don't take it out on people who aren't at fault.

Bc her daughter has expressed that she doesn't want to communicate right now, and MIL has practiced parental alienation in the past. Have you read all of op's posts?

OP has said:

'Since 2022, she has not regularly reached out to check on DD, even during periods when DD was unwell and frequently in hospital, which her son was fully aware of'

OP also used to send her MIL cards and presents but never received anything back for her or her daughter. The relationship was entirely one-sided with OP making all the effort. Why on earth should OP put herself out for a woman who has never made any sort of effort to have a loving relationship with her DIL and her grandaughter.

Then absolutely not. Not if your daughter doesn’t want to. What a rude woman.

Because the child, already traumatised by her father's lack of love and care for her, does not want them sent and does not want to hear about any of his family members and is distressed by this happening. Because op has some respect for her child and her child's feelings and wellbeing. Because op recognises her child as a person with feelings and wishes that matter. Because op is committed to being an adult who her child can trust and rely upon having already experienced years of being let down and hurt and abandoned by the other adult she should have been able to rely on.

And even if all that mattered not a thing to you at all, maybe you would wonder why, if op's daughter mattered so much to the ex MIL, why no attempts had previously been made to form a relationship, show love and care, seek updates, provide support?

Why don’t we send photos of you to someone you don’t like without your permission? Would you like that?

@Nia34

In this you must be guided by your DD, even at her young age. If she doesn't want you to send photos, don't send them. If she doesn't want to speak to her GM, don't make her.

Your exMiL is an adult. ExMiL needs to understand that at this young age DD cannot separate her from the father who has abandoned her. Let exMiL know that there is no blame being put on her for her son's actions, it's just that DD is too young to deal with this now. Let her know you will contact her if DD changes her mind (if that's what you would do). As painful as this will be for her, hopefully MiL can understand this. If she doesn't, I'd question whether or not she should be part of DD's life in the future.

Well done for being a great mum, it sounds as though your ex has put you through hell. I have a family member who did something similar to your ex. He quit his job, moved countries (eventually returned), went back to uni full time, took a lengthy time off after doing absolutely nothing, all fully financially supported by his parents. Ex wife was left literally raising 2 children full time, completely unsupported. Ex FIL hated the ex wife and funded the "go find yourself during your divorce" plan. Ex MIL wanted the grandchildren and was very upset that the divorce even happened. She enabled her son's shitty behaviour in my opinion. Your daughter is old enough to have a say here, which is good. Go with her wishes. You don't owe the grandma anything. If there is even a smidgeon of a chance that she enabled her son, she frankly deserves this.

Maybe she dies know what he’s like? Maybe sh’s been asking him to get in touch with his daughter and has been strung along. Maybe she hasn’t wanted or has been told not to interfere and has now decided enough is enough.

I had no contact with my farther from the age of 5 but through my childhood I spent many Christmases and holidays with my paternal grandmother and auntie. I'm sure it DM found it awkward at times but having those relationships really helped me and meant I did not feel the loss of part of my identity, that many children with absent parents feel.

Many years later, I'm a single parent myself and the children's farther has very limited involvement. It irritates the hell out of me that EX-PIL suport ex in his decision to be a deadbeat dad, but still I have them on Facebook and send updates because I want the children to maintain that relationships, with or without ex as an intermediate.

If you haven't had a bad relationship with your in-laws and your daughter would like a relationship with her grandma then I would support it.
If it becomes about your ex, grandma pushes him into conversation etc, then you can step in/ your daughter can stop contact?
If its positive interaction it can't be a bad thing

I know it's difficult for your daughter to separate her feelings for her terrible biological father and the biological father's mother, (her grandma,)
it would be a lot easier for you and your daughter to have zero contact with that end of the family at all, but perhaps remaining in contact with her, as it would only be limited contact, wouldn't be such a bad idea.

You wouldn't have to do much, in this age of communication there's emails, there's voicemails, there's zoom type calls, you can make a short video that can be posted un listed on YouTube, all kinds of ways.
Growing up, I could just write letters to my grandparents who did not live nearby.

It's possible that learning to trust her grandma, learning that this person does love her, learning that bad people can come out of good and loving home life situations...
Just like good and loving people can come out of bad home life situations...
That's an important life lesson.
I know she's a bit young for all of this but I guess you're never too young to learn a good life lesson.
She's already had to learn a bad one.

If grandma hasn’t sent birthday / Christmas cards / presents since 2022 she can’t now decide she wants to play granny . Makes you wonder if she has fallen out with her son now . Anyhow it’s up to your daughter to decide who she does or doesn’t want contact with .