DM has gone absolutely nuclear with me about moving away...

[YourWittyLion]

Throwaway account for obvious reasons when you read this.... also sorry in advance for the length of my post.. I'm trying not to miss details and hopefully get some none bias opinions!

Sooo where to begin!
My DH & I have been together for over 15 years and for 13 of these we've dreamed of moving down south!
We first discussed our plan with my parents 13 years ago and DM essentially guilted me out of it and made me feel terrible for even considering to leave them! (For the rest of this I'll mostly just refer to DM, as she is the main issue and my dad is a more of a bystander.)
We've revisited the idea in passing with them over the years and have been met with the same response or similar.

Anyway, fast forward to now, me and DH have 3 beautiful DS's. Life is good, but moving down south has become more and more appealing and we're now at a point that we have made a decision that we are going to do it next year... Essentially now or never, before our DS's get to old to want to move etc. We're all very excited about our plans! We have told a few very close friends and my DSis... everyone is understandably upset we're leaving, but overwhelming supportive of our plans!)

My DM admittedly has had a bit of a shit time of late. Her own mum passed away recently (complicated by a drawn out death over many months, a tricky relationship, family fallouts and my mum having childhood trauma from her abusive dad). Additionally my Dad has recently been referred due ro issues with his memory. Nothing formally diagnosed yet, but we're all fairly certain dementia may be the cause.

Me and DH made the decision about moving in late spring before all these issues were apparent. And because of this we haven't been able to tell my DM, in an attempt to try to protect her peace and give her time to process everything and also because we knew from previous responses that she wouldn't be happy about it etc.
Despite my dad's situation, he is aware of what's happening to him currently and has had multiple conversations about living the life I want and not to waste a day, as he has many regrets (not moving away being one of them). So i know that although my dad would be sad, he would be supportive of us following our dream.

Although really not ideal as my DM is still grieving and things with my dad are up in the air, we were forced to tell her about moving, because we're now at a point that we need to start making solid plans and taking steps to achieve the move and I didnt want my DM to be the last to know or to find out from someone else.
Well... we told them and my DM went nuclear!😪
She wanted to know who was going to look after dad when he got worse. I tried to explain that even if we stayed i couldn't offer the level of help she thinks I could. I'm self employed and reliant on my wage to cover our monthly expenses, so dropping work to look after my dad isn't financially possible and also my DS's who are all still very little are my priority.
She said something along the lines of "given the sacrifices she made" to bring me up .... essentially that I'm selfish.
She also threatened that she might as well kill herself and then stormed out of my house.

In all honesty I expected her to be angry and upset, but her response was so unhinged and bewildering I barely said anything and haven't since.

Since this happened she has sent a torrent of messages to my DB ranting and threatening that she & dad might as well kill themselves.
My DSis called them after they refused to reply to my distraught DB to check that they were ok given what she was messaging and DSis also got verbally abused, told that they might as well kill themselves and that she was done with us (presumably me and DSis as she challenged my DM on some of the things she was saying). It also really concerns me that shes using a threat of suicide to emotionally manipulate the situation and drawing my vulnerable dad into this way of thinking too! 💔

So this is now the point that we're at and I dont know what to do!

Just for added context, as i think its relavant, my DM has always been a tricky person (i don't know how else to describe this) and since being a mum myself and assessing my relationships with my mum, I've come to realisation that although she loves me, our relationship is mostly transactional in a sense that she doesnt really bother with me or my DS's unless she needs or wants something and we're not anywhere high on her list of priorities. A bitter pill to swallow, but something that I'm learning to accept.
I've done a lot of self exploring over the last few years to try to figure out if i'm the issue and to address my own shortcomings, but through this I've actually realised due to her upbringing, she is the perfect example of an emotionally immature parent- something she can't help or likely change.
I think in part this is the reason for the way she has responded, but its really difficult to take and I don't know where to go from here as I know I will never "win" or be "right" in her eyes.

Thanks for reading!

It's not as tricky as you think, OP. She's made assumptions and decided your life plans for you, which she's got no rights to do. She's having to realise that now! It might be tricky for her to do that, but it's a situation of her own making. You don't have to stay her scapegoat all your life and she shouldn't have ever thought of you as a scapegoat in the first place. The situation she finds herself in is a mixture of fate (DF diagnosis) and her incorrect assumptions that she owned you and could control you.

If you stay it'll be all the harder to fight the control and you'll end up having a massive falling out, possibly with the whole family if she manages to convince them that it's somehow your responsibility to be carer. A position which they may accept as "truth" so as to not fall out with her or be expected to do any caring themselves. So if you stay they still won't be happy and you'll be even less happy than if you move.

Stop asking parental permission to live you life too, stop justifying things to them. I know it's how you've been raised (I have a parent like this too) but it's not how it's meant to be. They don't have to like it or agree. You don't need their approval or blessing.

If DM doesn't want to be carer but wants to work, she can continue to do that. Social services will have to provide carers and when things progress and they can't provide enough, he'll go into a care home. If he's got dementia that'll happen at some point anyway, unless something else ends his life. If DM is of working age when he goes into a care home or passes away, she'll be expected to find a job, unless she's got some kind of private pension starting before the state pension age or savings to live on. If she's fit for work, the government will only allow her to claim UC (depending on savings) if she's a carer. Full UC, that is, she might be eligible for a top up on her wages if she's on a low income without savings and DF might be eligible for some benefits of some kind too if he's unwell enough.

Ah the suicide threats...sound familiar!

In your case - I would call Adult Social Care or her GP and explain that she is threatening suicide. If she is genuine, then she will get the help she needs, if she's not - then she won't do it again.

Adult Social Care may be able to advise on a long term support plan.

So her idea was that you should quit your job to look after your father while she wafted off to work. This is despite the fact you are reliant on your wages to cover your monthly expenses and you have children who are still very little. Your mother managed to squelch your dad's dreams, don't let her do the same to you. As I recall it the wedding vows mentioned in sickness and in health for the future spouses rather than the children of the union. Yes, your mum may need additional help and hopefully she gets it but that is not a reason to derail your plans.

Does your mum know anyone with dementia, or seen close-up what it's like to care for someone with dementia? If she does/has, then she's probably terrified of the road ahead. It is a relentless fucking shitshow with no respite. However, that said, you said she went nuts all those years ago when you first mentioned it, so that can't be the only reason she's reacting this way.

It does sound like there's a lot of selfishness and entitlement there, as well as fear for the future. It doesn't sound like - if you stay - you're going to have a nice cosy relationship where she brings as much to your life as you will to hers. She sounds quite damaged, sadly, and that's not your fault.

I would go, hold on to your dad's words, and don't feel guilty. But I would also have a really frank and open chat with your siblings about how things may play out. If you are close to them, try and keep that bond, by anticipating what future needs there might be and how you can share the burden. Eg, the admin side alone of caring is insane. And that's something you don't necessarily need to be nearby to help with.

It's incredibly easy for sibling relationships to falter when one or other is shouldering a disproportionate responsibility. When my dad had dementia my brother lived overseas, and while he came home as often as he could, he often spent that time (un)helpfully suggesting all kinds of ways I should be doing things differently. It was no-one's fault, but I still carry a little bit of resentment now at how life-changing it was for me to become a carer, while his life carried on as normal.

As others have said, this is your one and only life. Maybe it won't be what you imagined, you miss friends too much, and you end up coming back. Or maybe it turns out to be the best decision you ever made and changes the trajectory of your life in all kinds of unexpected ways. You'll only know if you go.

I am so sorry. please do exactly what is right for you. Make it clear to your mum that you will not be changing your mind.

That’s difficult..

Could you say to her, whilst you can’t do all the caring for your dad (if needed) perhaps they could both move down south to a nearby town as well if they liked? Then it gives her something to think about (a real option) and she doesn’t feel so left

@YourWittyLion it's emotional blackmail, pure and simple.

Do continue on your recovering people pleaser journey and pay her reaction no heed.

You have a life to live and that does not include setting yourself on fire to keep your Mum warm.

Please do not ask your mum to move with you. You'll never be free of her expectations! It's not your job to look after your dad.

My experience is SO similar it's a little unnerving. If you want to know about it I'm happy to dm. Ultimately, you need to do what's best for your family. With all due respect to other posters, your father having dementia is not a reason to stay put. He has a capable, healthy (?) wife, and your have two other valuable siblings, and there should be some assistance from the local health depending on where you are.

Whilst I'm loathed to make online diagnoses, it may be worth looking up the relationship with daughters (esp the eldest or most reliable one) and mothers with personality disorders.

I understand the current trend for describing parents as emotionally immature, but sending disturbing messages, and threatening double suicide, is, imvho a whole other basket.

Good luck, and as I said, I'm 15 years past and on the other side of the same conundrum, so happy to dm. Btw, I did move.

You should definitely report her suicide threats. Then, you move south and live your best life with your little family. Good luck with everything.

I would try to have a very frank and private conversation with dad when your dm was not around. Find out his care and end of life wishes. See if you can get him to have a legal document drawn up for when he becomes unable to look after himself and his affairs. And while you can still communicate with him let him know how much you love him so you'll have no regrets. Encourage him to have an updated will as well.

Please don't guilt OP @YourWittyLion for not wanting to stay to care for her dad...

People DO manage... She shouldn't have to sacrifice any more of her life.

I've largely had 15 years taken over with care of my elderly pa... It's broken me... It's like the boiled frog analogy .. I never EVER intended living with him again... But with the circumstances I find myself???

I really, really, regret staying.

YOU HAVE ONE LIFE!!

@YourWittyLion have you seen any of Dr Ramani online re parental narcissism?? ...
She's brilliant on cobceptualising this... When your parents only care for you conditionally for what you can give them... With all the Manipulation /mistreatment.

When you say move down south, how far away do you mean exactly ? And how old is your mum ?

Your mum clearly has her own demons to deal with and suddenly she has felt her world crashing down when you scuppered her (very unrealistic) old age plans that she was so relying on in her mind. She is reacting very poorly indeed towards you all and needs time to calm down.

I think that you should live your life how you want to and that you must find a way to be happy about it.

Part of that, could be you getting together with your siblings to brainstorm a plan to ease your mum’s concerns about her future. She needs a new way of thinking and of coping. Discuss those concerns, and all the possible options, - and research ways to help your mum be ready to help your dad with his possible dementia. Take her finances into account. If there is a rough support plan in your minds of shared responsibility and extra support outside the family, maybe she will feel less abandoned/helpless and more able to face what is undoubtedly going to be a difficult future. I hope that together, you can all reassure her …and guide her away from her over-reliance on you as the answer to all her fears.
Good luck OP.

My husband getting dementia is just about the worst thing I could ever imagine happening so I’d cut her some slack.

My mother threw a tantrum when I first left home. She said they couldnt manage without my money. However they somehow did.

She threw anothet hissy fit when I left the city I was born in to go to uni. She got over it. Eventually I told her that I was doing a higher degree/had got a job/nere intended to return to my home city. She got over that too.

As someone who had to move away from my family 15 years ago for work and relationship reasons, I find it strange that you would want to move away for no particular reason. Even though we are very entrenched now in our new area, I miss having my family close by.

That being said, there’s no doubt that your DM is behaving very badly here. Don’t allow her tantrumming to influence your decision. I would keep communication with her to a minimum until she has calmed down.

How far would you be if you moved away @op?

I’d just look at it as you’ve given your mum an extra 13 years of living close by after her last guilt trip. And now, you’re probably about even where you can live your life without being under her thumb and feeling guilty.

At least, you know that it isn’t a whim. You’ve wanted to move for 13 years like Christ - it is clearly where your heart is. No parent should begrudge you for doing something you’re clearly passionate about.

it worked for her last time, she probably thinks it will work again. Don’t let it. It’s your life, and your mother is the one being selfish in expecting you to live it on her terms.

Go. Without guilt.

If you and your dh have decided to move, then move. Presumably your dc can now speak of moving and they will miss their friends too. This will need support.

Is your dh from the same area as you and what do his friends and family think?

I suspect you are regretting not going years ago! You might have moved back!

Could you rent out your house for a year and rent for a year down south to see if you like it? Assume you are going for work prospects? Has remote working had its day?

Don't be swayed, OP. As a PP said, if it doesn't work our to your own satisfaction, you can always return...though going elsewhere seems to me to be the better option.

When I moved away for a very desirable and lucrative promotion, my mother behaved abominably. She phoned me to subtly hint that DF was very sick (he wasn't). Then that she was going for tests for some condition she refused to disclose, but was definitely life-limiting (she lived another 30 years and died at the age of 96). She refused to speak to me, refused to come out to wish me luck when we called in on our way. We did not contact her until she sent a letter some months later, in which she acted as though nothing hd happened. I know she boasted of my new job to anyone who would listen, but also moaned how the young people of today had no concern for aging and ailing parents (this was 35 years ago).

When she eventually came down to my new school, and we went to the chapel one Sunday morning, the Headmaster congratulated her on how wonderful her daughter was, how lucky they were to have me, and how competently I did my job, she snapped back at him "My daughter thinks I am useless." Eh?? All my life I had kowtowed to her and put up with her terrible rages and abusive and narcissistic behaviour.

Don't be ridden by your mother, OP. It wasn't until I had intensive therapy at the age of 69, and after her death that I finally gained some mental peace. What a waste of life. Don't be me, OP.

This is perfectly put! Live your life, Op.

Renting her house out would be financial suicide, especially once the rental rights act comes into force. And you can’t just do it for a year that easily, neither should you be able to.

The OP's father has memory issues. He hasn't got a dementia diagnosis yet and if he does get one he is at the beginning of the illness and it could take years to develop into full blown dementia.

He doesn't need care yet. But you are advocating that the OP put her life on hold, yet again so that she can help to care for him in the future?

The OP's parents have lived their life, but should they really get to use up their children's lives as well? The OP needs to concentrate on her own children in the here and now and make decisions that suit her and her family and not her parents and especially not her mother.

Her mother has other children that from the sounds of it are fairly local. The mother doesn't need everyone of them to do her bidding every time.

So OP, escape while you can and build your own life free of a constantly guilt tripping mother. You are not intending to move to the other side of the planet (but maybe you should). You will be able to easily travel back for visits etc, on your own terms, not that of a selfish drama queen of a mother.

So your mother has marked you out as the dogsbody of the family. I bet this a familiar pattern of behaviour from her. Especially since you mentioned that you believed you had a transactional relationship with her. She contacts you when she wants something and now she expects you to drop everything and be your father's carer as she doesn't want to give up her job!

OP, just firm up your plans and move away as quickly as possible.