DM has gone absolutely nuclear with me about moving away...

[YourWittyLion]

Throwaway account for obvious reasons when you read this.... also sorry in advance for the length of my post.. I'm trying not to miss details and hopefully get some none bias opinions!

Sooo where to begin!
My DH & I have been together for over 15 years and for 13 of these we've dreamed of moving down south!
We first discussed our plan with my parents 13 years ago and DM essentially guilted me out of it and made me feel terrible for even considering to leave them! (For the rest of this I'll mostly just refer to DM, as she is the main issue and my dad is a more of a bystander.)
We've revisited the idea in passing with them over the years and have been met with the same response or similar.

Anyway, fast forward to now, me and DH have 3 beautiful DS's. Life is good, but moving down south has become more and more appealing and we're now at a point that we have made a decision that we are going to do it next year... Essentially now or never, before our DS's get to old to want to move etc. We're all very excited about our plans! We have told a few very close friends and my DSis... everyone is understandably upset we're leaving, but overwhelming supportive of our plans!)

My DM admittedly has had a bit of a shit time of late. Her own mum passed away recently (complicated by a drawn out death over many months, a tricky relationship, family fallouts and my mum having childhood trauma from her abusive dad). Additionally my Dad has recently been referred due ro issues with his memory. Nothing formally diagnosed yet, but we're all fairly certain dementia may be the cause.

Me and DH made the decision about moving in late spring before all these issues were apparent. And because of this we haven't been able to tell my DM, in an attempt to try to protect her peace and give her time to process everything and also because we knew from previous responses that she wouldn't be happy about it etc.
Despite my dad's situation, he is aware of what's happening to him currently and has had multiple conversations about living the life I want and not to waste a day, as he has many regrets (not moving away being one of them). So i know that although my dad would be sad, he would be supportive of us following our dream.

Although really not ideal as my DM is still grieving and things with my dad are up in the air, we were forced to tell her about moving, because we're now at a point that we need to start making solid plans and taking steps to achieve the move and I didnt want my DM to be the last to know or to find out from someone else.
Well... we told them and my DM went nuclear!😪
She wanted to know who was going to look after dad when he got worse. I tried to explain that even if we stayed i couldn't offer the level of help she thinks I could. I'm self employed and reliant on my wage to cover our monthly expenses, so dropping work to look after my dad isn't financially possible and also my DS's who are all still very little are my priority.
She said something along the lines of "given the sacrifices she made" to bring me up .... essentially that I'm selfish.
She also threatened that she might as well kill herself and then stormed out of my house.

In all honesty I expected her to be angry and upset, but her response was so unhinged and bewildering I barely said anything and haven't since.

Since this happened she has sent a torrent of messages to my DB ranting and threatening that she & dad might as well kill themselves.
My DSis called them after they refused to reply to my distraught DB to check that they were ok given what she was messaging and DSis also got verbally abused, told that they might as well kill themselves and that she was done with us (presumably me and DSis as she challenged my DM on some of the things she was saying). It also really concerns me that shes using a threat of suicide to emotionally manipulate the situation and drawing my vulnerable dad into this way of thinking too! 💔

So this is now the point that we're at and I dont know what to do!

Just for added context, as i think its relavant, my DM has always been a tricky person (i don't know how else to describe this) and since being a mum myself and assessing my relationships with my mum, I've come to realisation that although she loves me, our relationship is mostly transactional in a sense that she doesnt really bother with me or my DS's unless she needs or wants something and we're not anywhere high on her list of priorities. A bitter pill to swallow, but something that I'm learning to accept.
I've done a lot of self exploring over the last few years to try to figure out if i'm the issue and to address my own shortcomings, but through this I've actually realised due to her upbringing, she is the perfect example of an emotionally immature parent- something she can't help or likely change.
I think in part this is the reason for the way she has responded, but its really difficult to take and I don't know where to go from here as I know I will never "win" or be "right" in her eyes.

Thanks for reading!

If this was America or Australia a 4 hour drive would be completely normal. Everywhere is a 4 hour drive away! We act like it’s a lifetime away.
It isn’t. It’s nothing. You’re not going a four hour flight away - it’s a fucking drive.

I myself moved 4 hours away from family with two young children and it was the best decision I ever made: the life I have here is incredible and I am so happy I didn’t chicken out. I didn’t even drive so would make multiple trips back home by public coach and sometimes train, if I could afford it. It was fine. Family make an effort to come visit and always have. Grandmother came to every single sports day and birthday even though she herself does not drive either.

If people want to be around they will. Your DM is making this all about herself and manipulating you into not spreading your wins and finding joy. Very selfish and disgusting attitude to hold your children back like this.

Honestly OP, run as fast as you can away from your toxic mother. She holds you responsible for all the things she hates about your dad and her life. In reality, despite her 'Catholic guilt', she had unprotected sex when unmarried, obviously decided to keep the baby and has blamed you ever since. That is so seriously fucked up that I couldn't be in the same room as her any more.

Do exactly what you think is best for you and your family. Don't take her into consideration. She is an unkind, guilt-tripping nightmare, not a loving mother. Fuck her!

No no and no! It's clear OP needs distance, emotional and physical, to heal from the lifelong mother-pleasing role and simply to get away from the endless emotional manipulation by and histrionics of her mother. OP, do not invite your parents to live nearby. This is your time. Go for it! We'll welcome you to the south.

How old are your parents OP?

Take your Dad with you and take the wind out of her sails. Sorry that is flippant but maybe a thought?

DM is punishing you for her perceived mistakes and sacrifices and whilst she won't divorce him due to her beliefs, she doesn't want the responsibility of him either. She can't have it both ways can she. And you have siblings so it can't have been all bad! But, just playing devils advocate here, why hasn't he divorced her?

I live a 20 minute drive away from my elderly, disabled mum. I don't drive. On public transport it can take 1.5-
2 hours each way because there are two different connections to make. Its not nothing.

I'll go against the tide here as I personally think most people posting on this thread are incredibly selfish. I think this is a cultural thing as it would be unheard of in China for example where the elderly are respected but in the west, they're viewed as excess luggage that can be abandoned without a backward glance.

I can't imagine moving away from my mother just when she needs me most.

Why do you want to move so far away anyway - you may find that it doesn't live up to your expectations or that you don't fit in when you arrive. Life is always greener on the other side.

But OP has been very clear she is not going to be a regular carer for her parents.

It really is nothing when you compare it to your adult child moving to Germany, don’t you think? No adult should feel pressed to live where they were born because that happens to be where their parents still are.

My Dh’s DM just moved to France. She’s retired, why should she not? Because he feels he needs his mum? No, we are happy for her that she is living the life she wants after many years living it for other people.

I hope by writing all of this down and clearly seeing it in black and white, that you should feel absolutely no guilt about moving op.

Your DM is not actually very nice. Even if she was, I wouldn’t let her derail your plans, but the fact is she is a manipulative individual who is only angry you are moving as you have ruined her plan for you as carer/dogs body. Go op. Go and live and enjoy. Your siblings don’t have to do more because you are less available - they do what suits them, and she gets help for the rest. Don’t end up with regrets like your dad has.

Indeed - and that's a very small corner of the south east the poster is talking about there, there's a lot more to the south than that!

This is a difficult situation @YourWittyLion

I would say two things

One is Grief makes people crazy. You don't understand how bad it is until you are in it yourself. The death of a parent, your mother especially is a huge deal and completely throws your world up. I think probably that this is a big element here. It may not help in the greater scheme of things in terms of moving, but it may help you and your relationship with her if you know that she is not herself if she is grieving. You want to cling on to anything stable.

The other is when you are choosing where to move, if you have a good relationship with your dad (and even given what you say about your mother), that as they age and death grows nearer, you will want to see them more and spend more time with them. It will make your life much harder and more stressful if you choose a place with poor transport links to where they are.

Thank you so much for this. I hope it helps OP.

I wanted you to know it has really really helped me. I am quoting it to try and get it properly in my head. I might even write it down in my best handwriting and in my phone notes.

That's a false equivalence.
OP's mother is going to be left looking after an elderly man with dementia.
Your DH is in the prime of life and independent unless he is disabled and you are his primary carer?
There may also be a difference in age and wealth between OP's DM and your MIL. Wait until your MIL falls ill or becomes unable to look after herself - she'll want to move home if that happens.

Gosh she is so unreasonable! Makes me think she may have Alzheimer’s. It is not as if you are an only child either. She is not unreasonable to feel gutted at you going but totally unreasonable to guilt trip you. My son said he may go to Australia( if his job here ends) I couldn’t help but be honest in the moment that I was upset but I wouldn’t try to stop him going and guilt trip him.

She handled it badly, and I don't condone her behaviour. But I also don't agree with the majority on this thread pushing to leave elderly relatives alone to deal with their health problems without any family support. We live in a world where there is very little money for social care, terrible infrastructure to deliver it and elderly people are increasingly worse off financially.

My sister had this attitude about my mother. She would never help us with care because she thought the state should do it. Well there isn't any bloody money, where is this magical social safety net to help people in these situations? We were literally the only people who could do anything for her.

Your mother must feel very alone and scared at the prospect of caring for her husband with dementia and now she is losing you. In your situation I would delay moving and stay to support her. You can eventually retire down south and still be there for your family before you do. I realise this goes against the grain and it saddens me that people don't value family support any more.

Have you tried putting yourself in her shoes?
You may find yourself in similar shoes in twenty years from now.

Btw all the requests for help you outline above are perfectly normal - if you can't ask family for help who can you?

Wait until your children start talking about you the way you are talking about your own mother.

Good brew I think this very much depends on the sort of relationship you had with your DM . My mum was my mum and best friend I supported her dementia journey to the end but not everyone can do that. People should step up if they can but not be guilted into things.

Your update which gives more background to your reasons for this move and the relationship with your mother are illuminating, OP.

Just be careful here - just because you enjoyed a few holidays in the south does not mean living there will be the same. I speak here as a 'soft southerner' who has loved living in three different counties in the south. It's expensive, crowded in a lot of parts but of course on the plus side there is much beautiful countryside with pretty market towns and villages and beautiful coastlines. A negative is that you will be away from family like your dear sister. You will be taking away your children from the wider family network too.

I guess you could say your mother acting out has given you the ideal excuse to escape guilt free - unfortunately you may be harming yourself too. You understandably have deep seated issues with your toxic relationship with your mother which will only be resolved through therapy/counselling. Just because you move the physical distance away, she will still have that hold over you until you can work through your issues with your mother. Sure you can argue she is to blame, which of course, she is, but she does have a lot on her plate with your dad's possible dementia and is frightened and has completely over-reacted.

Your mother has certainly taken the shine off your dreams of a life in the south. There's no black or white answer here, if you want to go then go - but be prepared that whatever you do there is nowhere to live that is perfect.

Taking your children to school should give you the chance to establish a network which you obviously won't have from running your own business. Despite the misguided trope of northerners = friendly and down to earth, versus southerners = snobbish and stand-offish nothing could be further from the truth. People are just people everywhere and indeed I experienced the worst case of workplace bullying from a 'down to earth' person from Yorkshire.

Are you prepared for the fact that you will have long journeys up north, often in stressful situations to see your beloved father, when you may not have readily available childcare for your children as you have no family network?

You have to ask yourself brutally honest questions here, OP and I would do a list of pros and cons and then decide. Very hard indeed for you.

How is that working out for the Chinese women who are expected to provide free old age care for their husband's family? Or all the chinese baby girls left to die because they wouldn't be useful to their parents in old age?

I will not provide old age care to my mother because she used me as practical/emotional support all the way through my childhood rather than leave her bullying dickhead husband and I have nothing left to give. If that makes me selfish then so be it.

She won't be left with no support, the OP has already said there are other siblings nearby.

Blimey - you aren't moving to Australia!

You have two other siblings who are close by so your mum isn't being left on her own with your Dad either.

So all in all, as your Dad has told you, you gotta follow your dreams.

She sounds like she's always been a piece of work, and changes to the brain can make people harder to deal with in old age. A big explosion now may be the price you're paying for not telling her earlier along with your sis, that may or may not have been the 'right' decision but it does mean things will have to resolve quicker.

Anyway, you just have to crack on, she'll get over it at least to a degree, and if she doesn't, that's up to her. Of course you will offer your siblings what support you can from Australia a few hours down the motorway.

Good luck with the move

@GoodBrew

Did you miss the bit where OP said she had a brother and sister locally, and her sister is first port of call for her parents? From what the OP says her sister is OK with her move.

Other than that, while I think family ties are important your role as a parent is to push your kids out into the world, parent-child is not an equal relationship - by their nature life and the generations can only move forward not backwards, and parents should not stand in the way of their kids going out into the world. If all my kids went off and lived in Australia or whatever, I'd be sad about that - but I'd be more pleased that I'd raised them to be confident adults who made the most of their lives, as I have mine.

This is total bullshit and ignores the fact that a lot of this caring for the elderly in these cultures is done by women at the expense of their health and happiness. My in laws are Greek and there is a massive misogynistic culture in Greece whereby the elderly parents are cared for by the daughters or daughters in law whether they want to do that or not. They are forced to through a combination of guilt, manipulation and abuse.

I am glad we live in a country where women are increasingly not expected to sacrifice themselves caring for elderly relatives, especially when they are abusive. Women are expected to work, have careers and contribute equally to the financial side of family life - how on earth can they do that and do all of the caring too?!?!

Also there is some massive hypocrisy here. Any thread where a poster says she asked parents or in laws for help with childcare is met by howls of protest that she is “entitled” and it’s not the grandparents job to do any care. Well in China and in Greece massive amounts of childcare are provided by the grandparents- this is part of the quid pro quo and conveniently ignored by the pp. can’t have it both ways - elderly people in the UK want to do whatever the fuck they want but expect their kids to provide massive amounts of care as and when they want it. Fuck that. You reap what you sow.

Move OP!!! Don’t tell your DM anything, just go. Be free and don’t look back. You don’t owe her anything.

It's all very sad. The thing that makes me laugh about all this is what the hell you think you're gonna find 'down south' that you cant get 'up north'. 😂😂😂😂😂

OP just go and live your life <3