To refuse to be a witness against colleague??

[Pukkajones]

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

You don’t get to say how anyone reacts to being flashed. And if you’re a decent person, you wouldn’t say it. Nor would you say it’s totally fine for women to flash me at work, and they’re wet if they can’t take it.

Have you been formally asked to speak with her libd manager as a witness, has anyone else been asked. You just answer their question, don't elaborate, don't say you've heard this and that. If they ask you did you see her flash her tit's you just say you saw her lift her top up. It's up to them what, if any, action they take.

@Pukkajones

YABU. This is not OK. I have been merry, tipsy, drunk, and pissed as a fart quite a number of times in the past, and inexplicably I managed to never flash my boobs at anyone, or grab a man's balls or cock! In fact, since I have been with my DH (35-ish years) I have never come onto another man! This woman's behaviour is disgusting, and saying that 'they got her pissed' is pathetic. No-one forced the drink down her throat!

She deserves her disciplinary 100%. Appalling behaviour!

You can't lie about what you saw. That makes you almost as bad as her, and you could get into trouble for not being truthful/lying by ommision!

Sounds like the sort of party where that probably happened too😂😂😂

Agreed. Although it shouldn't surprise me anymore.

I read a post on here not so long ago from a woman who had cheated on her DH and loads of the replies were just telling her to forget about it and not to tell her DH?!

Yet someone posts that their DH has done the same and everyone is up in arms about how disgusting he is and to LTB.

Just leaving this here, as the workplace protections have been strengthened in the last year.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-protections-from-sexual-harassment-come-into-force

@Pukkajones by saying factually what you saw you may be corroborating her story. The person she flashed might have exaggerated for all you know. As you say, with regard to the assault on the other person, you’ve heard a rumour but in this case you’ve seen her lift her top and show her bra.

Your description of the male colleague is making tears roll down my face. Just the thought of it is killing me. I'll be on the floor in a minute.

You tell the truth. There’s no way round it. Other people witnessed it too and if you lie your company will know.

I think unfortunately the groping someone is where she has really got herself into trouble, so I don't think you telling anyone what you saw is going to make it much worse.

If someone drunkenly flashed me at a party male or female, I don't think it would be something I'd get upset about, unless it was a pattern of behaviour or a wider problem but I can see how it would offend others and that's their line to decide.

I do think the company do need to take some responsibility for the creating an environmental that encourages that level of drinking.

OP I think that you are downplaying this as it's a female. I am very resilient/robust and have always worked in a very male, VERY lax industry and could (and have) easily laugh off a male doing similar but I know that many can't - and so you have to speak up for them.

Also - your female colleague would do well to have some sort of disciplinary hearing. If this gets laughed off/brushed under the carpet, she'll carry on getting out of control at future events and it could end very very badly next time.

I think it's shocking that she actually grabbed someone's crotch. Flashing her bra or whatever just sounds infantile but she chose to get super drunk with her colleagues and actually assaulted someone. There's no chance anyone would suggest a woman should just let that go and I see no difference here. Super gross atmosphere and there's really no excuse (I have never in my life been drunk enough to assault someone by accident!).

Consequences are different, and they matter. The reason why in english law that rape means 'penetrated with a penis' is a good example here. A woman cannot rape-being penetrated with a penis has different (more serious) potential consequence than being penetrated with a tongue or finger.

A man who is groped by a woman is not going to feel as intimidated, unsafe or violated as the other way around, generally speaking.

If the OP is going to add that the man had a disability of some sort, or was in a wheelchair, anorexic and the woman is a professional powerlifter who takes testosterone and/or other mitigating factors then that's different. But in general, if a woman groped me, I would suffer less mental hardship than if a man did. I would be less scared if a woman walked behind me on the way home at night. It's different.

She doesn't sound lovely.

I think you need to say only what you actually saw, do not get involved in any hearsay. She may have groped the guy, but if you didn't actually witness it, you need to say you didn't see that. If you did see her flash her boobs, then you should say just that.

Has the man who she assaulted also complained

Just imagine if you’d have been sexually assaulted by someone you worked with on that night.
Nobody wants to give evidence. Either you do the right thing or you don’t. She may be prosecuted for this, aside from misconduct (gross) at work.

Exactly this. If we want equality, or equity, then we need to treat the good and bad actions of both sexes in an equitable manner.

I would as all you have to say is she flashed her bra. And since bras are not harassment, in fact people often wear just that and only that on the red carpet then there’s nothing she can be strung up for.

As long as you’re not asked about other events this is a NON ISSUE and frankly I wonder why a woman showing a BRA is being investigated by HR? When you say there were loads of dodgy events that night.

Just say you didn't really see anything, there was a kerfuffle, she had had too much to drink and you stepped in to help put her to bed.

Or just tell the truth but minimise as much as possible if you don't want to drop her in it, not sure whether it was accidental but you did see her bra fleetingly. If everyone else was drunk no one is really going to be able to say what you did or didn't see, even sober these sort of dramas happen so quickly and it's usually all pretty confused. Some party outfits women are really only wearing a fancy bra top so I'm not sure what he's so upset about, was it the MD? Or did she push herself against him or something.

She doesn’t need to say anything though. She can just, as per her post, refuse.

Tell them what you saw.
Her behaviour was completely unacceptable.
Also, you have your own career to think of. How will it reflect on you if you refuse to say what you saw?

You’d be surprised. Companies have a duty of care and can be held vicariously liable for some misdemeanours. Op did you all not get the obligatory don’t go wild email pre do?

No. She will have learned it's unacceptable. It really is trivial. Making a mountain out of this when you have vile bullying managers everywhere who never get a dicky bird of discipline just shows what a backward lot we are in this country.

“the company got her poleaxed “………..No, she chose to drink too much. That was irresponsible and her behaviour was unacceptable.