To refuse to be a witness against colleague??

[Pukkajones]

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

Just snitch on her. Say what you saw. She may be lovely and may have made a mistake but mistakes can be costly. Perhaps this will teach her not to drink so much!?

You not snitching on her. You company simply want people to confirm (or deny) what she is being accused off. If a man flashed his bits at someone would you be willing to report the situation?

Companies the world over have free bars at social and networking events. They aren’t held responsible if employees assault other employees (or brawl in the street, or go home and beat their wives) because they had too much to drink. A formal complaint could be made to the venue if bar and waiting staff were continuing to serve people who were clearly intoxicated - and if OP saw that happening, she can state that in her meeting; but the employer won’t be found “vicariously” responsible because they hosted an open bar.

The company are not responsible for their employees behaviour - regardless of whether there was a free bar or not.
If one them had got drunk, then got in a car and caused an accident would that be the company's fault as well ?

THIS. She grabbed a man's testicles - if a man had grabbed a woman's vagina you wouldnt be saying its fine! no biggie- he was merry FGS!

Your colleague might be lovely when sober but when she is drunk she is a piece of shit.

They also wouldn't have to be. Case law supports more scenarios.

So you'd cover for a male colleague who'd grabbed a woman and flashed another one because "he's a nice guy" ?

No, that is outrageous and completely unacceptable behaviour. Imagine yourself on the receiving end of sexual harrassment in the workplace. Or as an event attended on behalf of that workplace. Would you want your colleagues to turn a blind eye, and for the PRF to conclude that your word isn't to be trusted? This would be devastating, and it's a workplace occurrence that happens far too frequently.

Be a good colleague, OP. You should stand witness to what you saw. This isn't 'snitching'. It's a moral obligation.

What industry do you work in? In my line of work, being caught lying in an investigation would be risking not just a sacking from my current position but also risking my professional registration.

Morally you should confirm what you witnessed, personally, you should also confirm it to save your own skin. If you refuse to participate or don't tell the truth your card is marked. Don't rely on colleagues saying they're not getting involved or won't grass, they will, and anyone with an ounce of cop on will keep themselves clean.

If a man had grabbed at a woman like this, it would have been a disciplinary. I honestly don’t think a woman should get away with it either.

But women are easily intimidated (with good reason!) by males who are historically dangerous to women.

It's not the same.

Unless you felt it would leave your job in jeopardy, I wouldn't say anything OP.I'd just tell them you do not want to be involved.

And before anyone jumps to conclusions, I am careful at work dos and haven't ever got drunk or done anything at all wrong at them.

Well, yes, obviously. That's why I said could, not would.

Drinking very much encouraged.
Eugh.....in a professional environment? I cannot ever imagine being a manager and encouraging my staff to drink.

The company got her poleaxed.
Do you really believe that?

Being asked to say what you witnessed isn't being a snitch, that's a very immature way to view the situation.

They could be.

Vicarious is the legal terminology.

Are you being serious?

So sexual assault only works one way?

Yabvu. She did something very very wrong and if she was a man flashing at and groping female colleagues genitals you'd not think twice about telling the truth as it's the right thing to do, same applies here. Alcohol is no excuse and whilst I accept she may have not behaved that way had she not been drunk she and she alone is responsible for how much she had to drink and she should have stuck to her limit as I'm sure nobody funneled it down her throat and she and she alone is responsible for her actions and needs to be held accountable and she needs to accept her consequences.

Groping is groping. The same as stealing is stealing. The same as rape is rape.

The moment you start introducing caveats to sexual assault is the moment women suffer too. Dont assume that minimising sexual assault on a man wont affect women as victims too. Women already have caveats put on them for wearing "revealing clothing". Making excuses for women doing it doesnt level the playing field, all it does is allow sexual predators to use more and more excuses

Yes you should say what you saw - she'll probably be in less trouble if you confirm she only showed her bra, from behind it might have looked like she fully got her boobs out

“The company got her poleaxed” – well that’s not true is it or otherwise you’d have been drunk too?! The company laid on an event where free drink was provided and some people behaved like idiots!

I also find it distasteful that you seem to be basing your decision on whether to report what is a sexual assault on whether you like your colleague or think that the person is a dickhead.

A free bar in this day and age is asking for trouble. With the workplace being so regulated alcohol should be banned at all functions and premises. But here we are. I suppose in your shoes I'd say what I saw.

I loathe and despise snitches. However there is a difference between snitching and bearing witness to a serious incident. I was once put in a position where I knew about an act of corporate bullying which amounted to gross misconduct. I passed on the information to my boss and then left it to him to investigate. He did, and the offence was so serious it went right to the top officer in the organization. When I told him how I felt he responded that not to speak up would have left me culpable with the person who committed the offence.

You are being placed in a difficult position. I would follow the good advice upthread. Report what you saw in a completely factual way and avoid any kind of opinion or speculation about what happened. For example if you are asked about the reaction of others nearby or of the victim. You cannot know how they felt, whether they were offended, and its not your place to speculate. Keep it professional and as brief as possible.

You need to tell the facts end off. She behaved inappropriately at a work event but the company maybe need to be more cautious about the amount of free alcohol they give.

Christ, that's appalling. No wonder so many people get off Scott free for sexual assault if all the witnesses think like you.

All I can say is I hope you never find yourself on the other end of things, OP - having a man grope/flash you but with no one willing to back up your side of things.

Employers can be held “vicariously liable” in very particular circumstances. They are ensuring they do not become vicariously liable for the sexual assault of their employees by acting to protect said employees by considering it a serious matter, ensuring a full investigation is carried out, and that the perpetrator will be disciplined. That’s their duty. They won’t be considered vicariously liable because an external venue continued to serve drinks to intoxicated people.

I have been in a not too dissimilar situation.

I tend not to get involved but as it was a work do and a formal complaint has been made, the disciplinary team may ask to talk to you and if that is the case, you need to give an honest, factual answer. But you can add that from your experience this was very unusual behaviour for the lady concerned. That's also factual and honest given post.

If you are not officially approached, you can choose whether or not to stay out of it but understand the affect it will have at work for those that feel aggrieved by her actions.