To refuse to be a witness against colleague??

[Pukkajones]

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

Oh ffs, now you are talking about a minor, which is child abuse. What a stupid comparison

Assault is still wrong regardless. Your statement is completely pointless to this discussion

'If it was a man doing it' 🙄. It wasnt!

Men can be intimidating, predatory and threatening. Drunk women are not. Irritating yes, and the may put themselves in dangerous situations with said predatory men but any bra flashing or body grabs should not be judged anywhere as harshly as 'men doing it'.

No ones statement is 'pointless to this discussion'. It's a chat forum, folk share their opinions which may be different to yours.

Assault is always wrong.

OP, 35 years ago I was in a similar situation.
I still cringe.
Christmas party and free drink.
One of my buddy colleagues, great guy, dropped his pance for the laugh, while a group of us were chatting. He was a married man with one child, not a big drinker, I was 25 at the time, he was about 32.

I still don't know why I did it but I pulled his pance up🙄🤣. Then other male colleagues dragged him off.

It was seen and his manager was told.
I was called in on monday morning by his manager and HR as they were concerned for me, lest I was traumatised by the incident.
I sat stunned for a minute as I tried to scramble my head together and started mumbling I was confused, couldn't remember, wasn't sure.
They said ok, as long as I was fine.

He got a bollixing, and told anything further like that and he was gone.
He apologised profusely to me, but the slagging he and I both got afterwards on nights out.

I feel very sorry for your colleague and I 100% think you made the right call re her flashing.

No teens present at the party from what the OP said and the potential groping was sheer hearsay /gossip which the OP did not witness and neither did anyone mentioning it!

So much drama over a bra flash!

Yes but what about if a man did it! What if a man lifted his top up and flashed his bra 😂

A woman's breasts are mammary glands and not used for penetrative rape or assault.

A man's penis however, is.

He was probably asking for it the way he was dressed🙄

The very same people who are justifying her actions by comparing them against a man are the very same ones who call all men scum and should never be trusted around a woman. Sexual assault is sexual assault; you don't get to define it by gender and trying to justify it because a man has a penis and a penis could be considered a criminal weapon, so can hands, and what did she use to grab a handful? Have a little grow up.

As for the actual incident, if no one wants to take it any further, perhaps a handshake and an apology, and no more said about it. Personally, I'd laugh it off but that doesnt make it okay.

It's surely not 'just' which parts of a body are being discussed & an 'outside' individual (MN) deciding on whether or not SA has taken place - but the overall behaviour of both Jenny and the employers? They have a duty of care for ALL employees, mental plus physical care.
So - I also disagree - eg Jenny is 21, male maybe is 19?? Still disagree with the point? Or, maybe / male is 28 Jenny is 20?

Or even, Jenny is 22, / male is 45. Do you think the same 'guidelines' apply if sexes were reversed??

In any scenario, the said Jenny needs a good talking to about her inappropriate behaviour, ( not just a 'telling off') & the company need to stop encouraging apparent pathetic 'drink all you can' culture. It's gone as far as asking for witnesses, so seems like hopefully the senior employers are taking this seriously, not just dismissing & saying 'oh, FFS'... etc.

You don't see the massive difference in your situation and OP's?

You were flashed and you decided you were fine and not to take it further.

OP saw someone else be flashed (and heard of someone else being groped) and she decided not to take it further regardless of how upset the person flashed might be.

In the OPs update she said that the person who was flashed hadnt reported it. Her first post about it sounded a lot more serious with bollocks getting felt and boobs flashed

Update said it was just gossip about the bollocks, that it wasnt boobs she saw but s bra.

Totally different scenarios

I was not being serious.
I’m really surprised by how few people actually read what the OP was actually called into a meeting about. There is no ‘what if a man did it’ outrage to be had here.

You are a sick person, if you don't think sexual assault is the same, no matter the sex, you are a sick person.

I am a sick person as well then.
It isn't the same. I am not saying either are pleasant or right, but of the same level they are not. The law reflects thus.

I'm glad you said nothing. I work in a similar culture. Sales conferences are like a drink and drug fest. There will never be a night without a story like this. If you ply enough people with alcohol at least one will get paralytic and when someone is paralytic they lose control of their actions. Our company are stricter now, we have a new sales director who doesn't drink and we were given drinks tokens at our last conference, and they no longer do free booze at lunch times because it used to cause carnage in the office in the afternoons. But our previous sales director was just as bad as everyone else if not worse! I feel sorry for the girl she must be mortified. Sometimes it's the quieter ones that drink more out of nerves and lose control. I've been there when younger.

Guess you are.

I wasn't flashed, he dropped his trousers, not his underwear.
There was a group of us standing around chatting, I wasn't alone. He was well pissed and acting the tool.
But yes it was inappropriate and stupid.
I certainly didn't think he meant any harm by it.

The gropee decided not to take it further, their choice.
She flashed her bra, while pissed, certainly not a hanging offence IMO, stupid yes..
I definitely wouldn't want to be any part of her being reprimanded..

OP has every right to choose not to be involved.

How disgusting people are on here. Being okay with such inappropriate behaviour. All I can say is you should have been raised better.

Being drunk doesn't magically make inappropriate behaviour okay.

No one is 'disgusting', we have different opinions and that is the nature of a chat forum. If you can't cope with that then read a book.

I can cope and I can call out bad behaviour when I see it.

Me and others on this thread, oh and the House of Lords and the monarchy. Guess I'm in good company 🙂

Yes. Bad behaviour can be done by everyone.

Don't know where the house of lords and the monarchy fit in. But I'd expect the peers of the realm and the royal family to act with some level of base sense.

Not turn into debauchery.

I was referring to my previous comment about how the law reflects rape. Rape can only be commited by a man. If a woman does similar, it is serious sexual assault. Both 'bad behaviour' if you want to call it that, of course, but not the same.