To refuse to be a witness against colleague??

[Pukkajones]

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

Intentions are relevant, yes.

If the only action was flashing her bra - not a big deal, perhaps a minor PR matter.

Flashing her boobs at an office party - more serious, but probably still just a warning.

Groping someone's genitals - very serious, and termination for gross misconduct is absolutely in the range of appropriate responses.

Even if the OP only witnessed the lesser event (which, on its own, would not be a big deal imo), lying to HR in the context of an apparently more serious investigation...yeah, thats shitty.

And, FWIW, while it probably is true that a reasonable amount of men (maybe even most) would brush off having their genitals non-consentually groped, others would not - it could be seriously (re)traumatizing to some.

Surely it depends on the bra? A lacy bra, yes. A crop top type, not so much.

Unfortunately gone are the days where you can behave how you like at a work party and it doesn’t matter. How much you drink and how you behave is entirely an individuals responsibility and even in a social setting you remain a representative of the organisation you work for. Trust me, I employ staff and for the last 3 events I have had to deal with serious issues and other staff raising grievances. As part of any disciplinary the company has to collect witness statements. Keep it factual but she only has herself to blame for her behaviour - it’s not the time or the place and groping someone is serious and she could be charged with assault if the person she groped decides to press charges. She sounds like a nightmare and her behaviour in my organisation would be classed as gross misconduct attracting immediate dismissal.

The OP spreads on MN what she saw and what she didn’t see , what perhaps didn’t happen or not in the way OP described thereby spreading malicious career ending gossip.

Nice.

What a horrible workplace

op can you update what happens? I wonder if jenny will leave

If the genders were reversed there would be no question of whether you spoke up. If they are asking everyone they may not need your account. If they do, just keep it factual.

Enjoy the power cut. Serves you right.

As you didn't see the sexual assault you can tell your Line Manager that. Flashing someone isn't acceptable either though really. It isn't fair on the person that they had to see Jenny's bra in that way. It has overstepped boundaries and if you're being asked about it then clearly the person it was aimed at has not dismissed the behaviour as drunken foolishness. People are responsible for their behaviours and alcohol is never an excuse for unacceptable behaviours.

That's not necessarily true. I worked somewhere where a bloke went on a similar black-out drunk rampage. He'd recently come out as gay, and this normally mild-mannered shy guy stripped his shirt off dancing, and made embarassing "joke" passes at few of the office men.

Most of the recipients of the passes were absolutely fine about it, knew the guy and understood why he did it and that his intentions were not predatory or meant to offend. One guy did not like it and complained (as he was perfectly entitled to do). If it hadn't had been for that one guy who didn't like it, no one would have said a thing (male or female).

HR dealt with it by the book, as they should. And the guy was given a warning and had to appologise. He was absolutely devastated at his own behaviour and the appologies were accepted and everyone moved on. The end.

How do we go about getting an invite to next year's party - asking for a friend.

State what you saw without any emotion.
As others have said, if the guilty party was a man, he would be facing a sexual assault charge and possibly the sack.

Hopefully the organisation also learns from this incident that unlimited alcohol is not always a good idea at a work event.

Could be that a lot of this serious-sounding stuff is people sensationalising nothing much at all - idle gossip & exaggeration from a crowd of similarly drunk people? No harm done?

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/policewoman-tears-shes-sacked-what-33004629?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwZnRzaAOn3V9leHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEeQ2GmP4qClsRvqtvpEtc3K-iBapyt2Ho-TjkwJLa2u5yKt0zoGRMZciy4he0_aem_jWpTa809O1eoqwlKJpKtqg#Echobox=1764927577

I cant read that, paywall. What did she do?

Oh really
I will try and change

policewoman who was accused of groping colleagues and trying to kiss an inspector has been sacked. PC Pamela Pritchard, 29, was off-duty when she went to a leaving party for a different colleague at Caernarfon rugby club in North Wales in March of last year.
reported by North Wales Live, PC Pritchard was said to be “mortified” by her behaviour at the party and denied any sexual intent. But Chris Allsop, the force’s assistant chief constable, said after a four-day hearing: ”The conduct is of a level that could justify dismissal and is therefore at the level of gross misconduct.”

Absolute overreaction but then we have plods arresting folk for tweets so maybe not surprising.
Surely a verbal warning would sufficed in this case unless there's a massive back story we haven't been told about.

I agree
but then I started work in tech in the 90s. 95% male and complete acceptance of totally unacceptable behaviour. It was expected that us girls would just laugh it off, be one of the lads and not be ‘over sensitive’. My perception is probably very skewed, I subconsciously still feel a lot of things people complain about are overreacting. Not saying that is right, just the age I worked in

That doesn't matter, she sexually harassed two people!!!

Are you joking? She was sexually touching people without their consent!!! If it was a man doing that you would demand he be fired.

Disgusting. She committed sexual assault, and you helped hide her crime. I bet if some guy dies that to you next Christmas party, you will be in tears and suddenly it will matter.

It’s a bit ironic, really; all the posters insisting op should say nothing because “it’s nothing, just a bit of silliness”.
If it’s nothing, why try so hard to prevent it coming to the ears of HR?
They’re sure to agree it’s nothing, right?

Wow. Sounds like a Carry On 1960s office 'do'. (not meant to be funny at all).

Who was encouraging the drinking? Did anyone force her to drink? You say that the the 'company 'encouraged her to got her poleaxed / excessive drinking of alcohol??' How did that happen - anyone one person in particular? Any proof? (Not doubting you, but proof / names may be needed), and 'No Thanks' is an acceptable reply by Jenny.

No one has to 'drink' even if encouraged to.

You don't have to say or 'deny' anything, you are not on trial, are you in a Union??

Maybe just say what you saw, including the bit about the 'company' encouraging excessive drinking? - but this poor stupid young girl must be accountable for her actions - a man would be - not just the 'flashing', but certainly the S groping - SA - that's so too far - imagine if it was your son, Dad, DH or BF who was being 'groped' - Jenny went too far, and must own up to her actions, & apologise, which would probably be better than trying to deny it. Please update??
(PS Crap employers - please name & shame - as they appear to encourage such 'wild / weird' behaviour'. has anyone called them out on this? I would be writing all this down for any unfortunate future reference). Was she only one who behaved like this at the happy 'Christmas Party? (If it was my son that she SA'd poor Jenny would be drinking out of a bliddy straw and wearing sunglasses, whatever her excuse was). Plus a lawsuit pending for SA against 'poor Jenny' & her awful employers.

And was your teenage son sexually assaulted / have his genitals grabbed by a drunken 'Jenny'???

Actually, it isn't. Unpleasant yes and she didn't have the right to do it but men have, by their very physiological build, a power over women and puts women in fear of rape and violence. Men have a penis, which is the criminal weapon in law. Women don't.

Stop making assault, regardless of sex, out to be an equal thing ffs! It isn't.