Page 8 | People like this should be deborted

Londb · 2025-12-08T20:27:03+00:00

[[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74x9ln0y4qo.amp https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74x9ln0y4qo.amp]] Why is there even a chance of any of these two remaining here in the UK? They had their chance and ended up doing what they did. *deported

PandoraSocks · 09/12/2025 10:30

Anonanonnona · 09/12/2025 10:12

Feel free to make your own graph using the data I provided. It’ll be the same.

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Are you the person who created the graphic?

Anonanonnona · 09/12/2025 10:33

PrincessofWells · 09/12/2025 10:26

You clearly know very little about statistics and data and how the gathering of statistics can provide both intentional and unintentional bias. That's why the origin of the statistics is as important as the content. People with the benefit of an enhanced education are able to work these things out for themselves. There's some very good academic papers on this, why don't you seek them out and arm yourself with the knowledge as it does add coherence to ones arguments?

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You think the home office has been manipulating the data to make it appear as if there is a spike of 15-17yo asylum seekers and a dip in those 18-25?

EasternStandard · 09/12/2025 10:34

PrincessofWells · 09/12/2025 10:26

You clearly know very little about statistics and data and how the gathering of statistics can provide both intentional and unintentional bias. That's why the origin of the statistics is as important as the content. People with the benefit of an enhanced education are able to work these things out for themselves. There's some very good academic papers on this, why don't you seek them out and arm yourself with the knowledge as it does add coherence to ones arguments?

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What’s incorrect in the graphic below?

JudgeJ · 09/12/2025 10:41

unsync · 09/12/2025 07:00

Sentence served, deportation and a lifetime ban on returning. This should be for any crime. If you want to come to the UK, you should, at the very least, abide by UK laws.

Exactly this! I always compare it to offering someone a home in my house because they're in a difficult situation but the minute they seriously abuse my hospitality, they're out!
I've lived in other countries and have always obeyed the laws of that country, I still feel a bit uncomfortable hanging washing out on a Sunday!

Rosscameasdoody · 09/12/2025 10:49

PrincessofWells · 09/12/2025 10:11

They are British citizens and the Tory government tried to remove two persons of their citizenship despite knowing those actions were contrary to both international and national law. That's why they have not been deported and are unlikely to be.

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Not true. Some had dual nationality and there have been various trials since 2012 - the latest being this year. Five of the men convicted in 2012 were stripped of British citizenship in 2017, so they could be deported after serving their sentences. Those decisions were upheld at appeal in 2018, and of those five, one left the UK and has been banned from returning, one is still in the UK fighting deportation, and the others are still in jail - one of whom was brought back to the UK from Pakistan and jailed in 2020.

PrincessofWells · 09/12/2025 10:55

Rosscameasdoody · 09/12/2025 10:49

Not true. Some had dual nationality and there have been various trials since 2012 - the latest being this year. Five of the men convicted in 2012 were stripped of British citizenship in 2017, so they could be deported after serving their sentences. Those decisions were upheld at appeal in 2018, and of those five, one left the UK and has been banned from returning, one is still in the UK fighting deportation, and the others are still in jail - one of whom was brought back to the UK from Pakistan and jailed in 2020.

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Like I said, none have been deported.

Lakeyloo · 09/12/2025 11:05

OnTheNiceishList · 09/12/2025 08:46

I actually have a theory about these asylums seeking criminals.

You don’t just get off a boat and start committing crimes. You have to be a wrongun in the first place. My theory is that many of these men are on some kind of wanted list back home. Maybe they’ve pissed someone off, maybe they have been threatened with the law or someone is after them for attacking their daughter or sister. Maybe their lives are in danger back home and their option is; get your legs broken or be killed back home, or flee to Europe.

You don’t just suddenly become a rapist or murderer. It’s built over time, and in these cases that would’ve been back home for them.

@OnTheNiceishList I think you're right in a lot of cases. There's a current court case in our neck of the woods - 3 men accused of raping a woman on Brighton beach in October. One Iranian and two Egyptian nationals, all currently seeking asylum in the UK. Why else would Egyptians need to seek asylum here ?

whataguddle · 09/12/2025 11:10

There is no war in Egypt!

Clearly a wrongun....we don't need the criminals from other countries.

PhuckTrump · 09/12/2025 11:15

ThisLittlePony · 08/12/2025 20:38

Yawn? You don’t think rapists should be subject to criminal law?
would you tell the woman they raped that you’re bored by her rapists receiving justice?

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They didn’t rape a woman—it was a girl.

RollOnSunshine · 09/12/2025 11:19

Dollymylove · 08/12/2025 23:17

None. They just get waved in and straight to a hotel, a bed, 3 meals a day, pocket money and allowed to roam freely among us.
No bloody wonder the rest of the world are laughing at us 😡

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The government are going about this all wrong.

If they were confined to closed quarters with little in the way of luxiries until they have been fully assessed then the number coming over here will soon drop off. Yet the government think that putting them in a hotel free to walk with the general population as they please is the best solution. Jesus wept!

If you arrive at an airport without any documention you will rightly be held. Why is arriving in a little boat treated any differently?

SpaceRaccoon · 09/12/2025 11:21

You don’t just get off a boat and start committing crimes. You have to be a wrongun in the first place. My theory is that many of these men are on some kind of wanted list back home. Maybe they’ve pissed someone off, maybe they have been threatened with the law or someone is after them for attacking their daughter or sister. Maybe their lives are in danger back home and their option is; get your legs broken or be killed back home, or flee to Europe.

That, or people are opening their jails and pointing them in the direction of Europe as a way of getting rid of the problem. Or families are sending over their problematic members - get them out of the way plus possibly a remittance sent back if you're lucky.

I've also read that Putin deliberately sends foreign criminals to destabilise Eastern Europe.

It seems plausible to me - I mean I've lived in the Gulf where citizens are minorities in their own countries, yet crime rates overall are extremely low. Why? They allow in the cream - hard working, law abiding people who aren't drawn by soft-touch laws and generous benefits - and we get... well, the opposite of that.

HRTQueen · 09/12/2025 11:24

PrincessofWells · 08/12/2025 22:09

Begum has not been convicted of a crime.

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Yes that is true, the previous government made it clear that they felt she was a threat to our security and if she did return she would be likely face charges.

My guess is the majority of those who support her not being able to return to the uk also support the afghan offenders being deported back to their country of origin, so why one but not the other

Fluffyholeysocks · 09/12/2025 11:26

HRTQueen · 09/12/2025 11:24

Yes that is true, the previous government made it clear that they felt she was a threat to our security and if she did return she would be likely face charges.

My guess is the majority of those who support her not being able to return to the uk also support the afghan offenders being deported back to their country of origin, so why one but not the other

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Because she is a threat to our national security and they are child rapists?

PrincessofWells · 09/12/2025 11:33

There is a very strong argument that Shemima Begum was a trafficked child and was groomed, and many women see her as a victim of men rather than a perpetrator.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 09/12/2025 11:36

You don’t just suddenly become a rapist or murderer. It’s built over time, and in these cases that would’ve been back home for them

Very likely, @OnTheNiceishList, but not all countries have the same attitudes to rape as the UK, and in some cases this has even led to migrant offenders going free because "they didn't know it was wrong"

For the sake of everyone - decent migrants included - this farce needs stopping, but there isn't the political will to actually do it so here we are

Fluffyholeysocks · 09/12/2025 11:39

PrincessofWells · 09/12/2025 11:33

There is a very strong argument that Shemima Begum was a trafficked child and was groomed, and many women see her as a victim of men rather than a perpetrator.

So not proven in any court of law. The first priority of any Government is National Security - to protect its citizens from threats.
You are comparing apples with pears, are the child rapists a national threat to Afghanistan?

HRTQueen · 09/12/2025 11:51

Fluffyholeysocks · 09/12/2025 11:26

Because she is a threat to our national security and they are child rapists?

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And they are not a threat to girls in Afghanistan ?

Or is that not our problem? And if so is Shamima Begum, who was born and raised in the UK, is she then not a threat in Syria a country she also went to as a child

Fluffyholeysocks · 09/12/2025 11:54

HRTQueen · 09/12/2025 11:51

And they are not a threat to girls in Afghanistan ?

Or is that not our problem? And if so is Shamima Begum, who was born and raised in the UK, is she then not a threat in Syria a country she also went to as a child

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You are not comparing like for like.
Are we to stop deporting Jamaican child rapists as they are a threat to Jamaica?

HRTQueen · 09/12/2025 12:02

Fluffyholeysocks · 09/12/2025 11:54

You are not comparing like for like.
Are we to stop deporting Jamaican child rapists as they are a threat to Jamaica?

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No the point I am making is that people can be quite fickle as to how they view people who should and shouldn't not serve sentences in the UK.

She is considered a threat so why is Syria having to deal with her, they are considered threat to girls so why are we dealing with them

The threat maybe different but if we want to support criminals returning to their country of origin we should be doing the same

Or if we are wanting to take into account they are children (which SB was she was 15) we should again be doing the same

Fluffyholeysocks · 09/12/2025 12:08

HRTQueen · 09/12/2025 12:02

No the point I am making is that people can be quite fickle as to how they view people who should and shouldn't not serve sentences in the UK.

She is considered a threat so why is Syria having to deal with her, they are considered threat to girls so why are we dealing with them

The threat maybe different but if we want to support criminals returning to their country of origin we should be doing the same

Or if we are wanting to take into account they are children (which SB was she was 15) we should again be doing the same

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I take your point but I think you need to compare whether we as a nation take back our child rapists after they have served their sentences abroad as to whether Afghanistan should. If we don't, then is it unreasonable for other countries to accept theirs?
Begum is a completely different situation. The two shouldn't be compared.

5MinuteArgument · 09/12/2025 12:20

I think generally people serve prison time in the country where they committed their crime. They should be deported after, with no return, no question.

Anonanonnona · 09/12/2025 13:21

PrincessofWells · 09/12/2025 10:26

You clearly know very little about statistics and data and how the gathering of statistics can provide both intentional and unintentional bias. That's why the origin of the statistics is as important as the content. People with the benefit of an enhanced education are able to work these things out for themselves. There's some very good academic papers on this, why don't you seek them out and arm yourself with the knowledge as it does add coherence to ones arguments?

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I’m still laughing about this post. So high and mighty. I guess nobody ever taught you about ad hominem attacks in your precious higher education? Appeal to authority ring any bells?

Instead of dismissing me personally, why not engage with the actual Home Office data I linked? If you spot bias or manipulation in it, feel free to point it out specifically rather than vaguely waving at academic papers. I’d love to hear your expert breakdown!

Kendodd · 09/12/2025 13:30

SpaceRaccoon · 09/12/2025 11:21

You don’t just get off a boat and start committing crimes. You have to be a wrongun in the first place. My theory is that many of these men are on some kind of wanted list back home. Maybe they’ve pissed someone off, maybe they have been threatened with the law or someone is after them for attacking their daughter or sister. Maybe their lives are in danger back home and their option is; get your legs broken or be killed back home, or flee to Europe.

That, or people are opening their jails and pointing them in the direction of Europe as a way of getting rid of the problem. Or families are sending over their problematic members - get them out of the way plus possibly a remittance sent back if you're lucky.

I've also read that Putin deliberately sends foreign criminals to destabilise Eastern Europe.

It seems plausible to me - I mean I've lived in the Gulf where citizens are minorities in their own countries, yet crime rates overall are extremely low. Why? They allow in the cream - hard working, law abiding people who aren't drawn by soft-touch laws and generous benefits - and we get... well, the opposite of that.

I think Cuba did similar, opened its prisons and shipped off all its prisoners to the US.

PrincessofWells · 09/12/2025 13:35

Fluffyholeysocks · 09/12/2025 11:39

So not proven in any court of law. The first priority of any Government is National Security - to protect its citizens from threats.
You are comparing apples with pears, are the child rapists a national threat to Afghanistan?

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It's very worrying that a person could be stripped of their citizenship without having been found guilty of any offence in an English court. It's the type of behaviour we see in despot countries.

It certainly isn't comparing apples and pears. The same laws are applicable to all parties.

Kendodd · 09/12/2025 13:45

Hibernatingtilspring · 09/12/2025 09:38

No one who does the assessments think they're fool proof, but trying to determine age (to such a specific range) by physical characteristics is about as reliable as trying to predict criminality based on someone's skull shape. With the same undercurrents of non white races being more likely to be discriminated against. So unless you have a better option, it's what they've got.

The guidance is that if it's borderline, to assess as younger. They can only assess as over 18 if it's very clear that the young person is well over 18. I know some people won't like that, but the alternative is risking genuine children being put in adult services and not receiving the care and protection they deserve, so they have to err on the side of caution.

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Wouldn't airing on side of caution equally mean not putting adult men pretending to be children into children's services surrounded by and with access to actual children? In fact I would argue it is saver to mistakenly put a child in with adults who haven't lied about their age for self advantage than to put an adult man who has deceived, pretending to be a child in with actual children. We can disagree on this though.